C100: when do expect an EOS cinema update?

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dvxkoji

Active member
I am considering jumping on the EOS C100 train but fact is there is no hurry and I am really curious if a hardware update is anywhere near.
The C100 was announced on August 29. 2012. The C300 in November 2011. And with things moving so fast I am really wondering when to expect a hardware refreshment. I know this is just asking and nobody knows for certain but what are your guesses?

 
Sometime in the future... ;)

Unfortunately no one knows - apart from Canon. We haven't even had a major firmware update yet, though there is on scheduled for November 2013. Canon's update schedule record isn't the quickest going by their DSLRs.
 
I believe two years is the minimum product cycle and if it's still selling really well then Canon wont replace it. Why update a camera that's still hot. It took almost 5 years to replace the 5D MKII.
 
seems too early. im sure they want to continue to capitalize on their current investments, seeing as they spent however much on R&D.
 
I'd expect about a 3 year product cycle on the Cinema EOS products. I think there is a good chance we'll get announcements in 2014, though releases may not happen until the end of that year or beginning of 2015.
 
The entire C-range is already underspecced and overpriced, because it was designed to compete to what was already on the market (F3, AF100, RED One), rather than what would come in the next 12 months (EPIC, F5/55, BMD..).
It was a risky marketing decision, which made plenty of sales at the beginning and even the adoption of the format as de facto by broadcasters (but not by Hollywood, despite the Scorsese move, who by the way just cashed the check and went to shoot ALEXA, ha!)

At the present time though I see nobody interested in buying these cameras anymore -remember it's an investment for the next 3-4 years. Canon only possible move is to lower the prices SUBSTANTIALLY.
Like in half.

If Canon decides to keep the currrent line for much longer it risks losing all new customers altogether.
 
jindrich said:
The entire C-range is already underspecced and overpriced, because it was designed to compete to what was already on the market (F3, AF100, RED One), rather than what would come in the next 12 months (EPIC, F5/55, BMD..).
It was a risky marketing decision, which made plenty of sales at the beginning and even the adoption of the format as de facto by broadcasters (but not by Hollywood, despite the Scorsese move, who by the way just cashed the check and went to shoot ALEXA, ha!)

At the present time though I see nobody interested in buying these cameras anymore -remember it's an investment for the next 3-4 years. Canon only possible move is to lower the prices SUBSTANTIALLY.
Like in half.

If Canon decides to keep the currrent line for much longer it risks losing all new customers altogether.
Click to expand...
Meanwhile, Canon has become the first HDslr to be accepted as a tier 1 broadcast camera by the EBU. C100's and C300s flying off shelves both for purchase and rental. Man Canon gets a love hate vibe. Wonder what my outdated camera will look like shooting 80,000 Iso in a couple months? Until then, I will keep making money with my under specked overpriced Camera that delivers gorgeous images every time I ingest them into the NLE. The world is going web and people are so caught up in the 4k-oolaid.

I'm sure Canon is working on the next gen DV digic as we type. And when it releases many will flock to it. Many won't. That is why there are all sorts of cameras out there to choose from. I mean, you can stand in line for a Blackmagic camera that has moire in 2013 and no frame rate higher than 30p and that you have to shoot at odd shutter angles to get decent motion rendering that you have to send back once you finally get the camera to take away weird white orbs while trying to figure out how to rig a audio solution to and monitor...."But thats a $1000 camera". Not when your done rigging to make it work like a camera that shoots like a C cam out of the box.
 
I believe C series is gonna have Firmware updates in the coming years. If you dont hear from Canon for more than 12 months , then its time for their new product announcement.

And I also believe we are only using 40-50% of the sensor technology, The image makes me think that the possibility is endless.

So I think you have to wait till Canon announces the other 50% of the technology throughout the Firmware.

Something like a 4K option like a FS 700 you know, similar idea, eventhough 4K makes no sense to me.
 
dustylense said:
Meanwhile, Canon has become the first HDslr to be accepted as a tier 1 broadcast camera by the EBU. C100's and C300s flying off shelves both for purchase and rental. Man Canon gets a love hate vibe. Wonder what my outdated camera will look like shooting 80,000 Iso in a couple months? Until then, I will keep making money with my under specked overpriced Camera that delivers gorgeous images every time I ingest them into the NLE. The world is going web and people are so caught up in the 4k-oolaid.

I'm sure Canon is working on the next gen DV digic as we type. And when it releases many will flock to it. Many won't. That is why there are all sorts of cameras out there to choose from. I mean, you can stand in line for a Blackmagic camera that has moire in 2013 and no frame rate higher than 30p and that you have to shoot at odd shutter angles to get decent motion rendering that you have to send back once you finally get the camera to take away weird white orbs while trying to figure out how to rig a audio solution to and monitor...."But thats a $1000 camera". Not when your done rigging to make it work like a camera that shoots like a C cam out of the box.
Click to expand...
Is you daughter named Canon?
As a Marketing and Production Manager I dont care about cameras or brands, they're just damm tools.
Over here in the EU, Canon sold plenty of C300+24-105 to broadcasters for run&gun reality because it was so much cheaper than a proper ENG cam. The wedding guys have adopted the C100 as the problem solver from the 5D. And the ALEXA has wiped everybody else. You can rent an ALEXA+6Ultraprimes+oConnor tripod+MB, FF, Battss, for less than 1k/day. No sense in using anything else.
BMCC are currently being used as a B camera to the ALEXA, due to its creamy image, on €500k-1m tv commercials). Canon image is too video-y and doesn't match that color/dynamic range due its 8 bit codec.

A freelancer buying a camera today sees a great broadcast 8 bit Canon camera that's impossible to shoulder mount VS a 10bit+RAW+60p-200p+4K... for roughly the same price. Or a BMCC *for free* if getting Resolve that due to its film look blows any C-cam for commercials/controlled shootings. If opting for the Canon say goodbye to clients demanding slow-mo, quality green screeen, film-look, etc etc.
In the upper end, Sony's F55 and now the new ARRI AMIRA have just destroyed IMO the C500 (RED could be a contender, but it's too unreliable and no serious DP wants to compromise its reputation with them anymore, so they're gathering dust here).

THIS is what Canon must face from now on, until it releases new models.
 
jindrich said:
Is you daughter named Canon?
As a Marketing and Production Manager I dont care about cameras or brands, they're just damm tools.
Over here in the EU, Canon sold plenty of C300+24-105 to broadcasters for run&gun reality because it was so much cheaper than a proper ENG cam. The wedding guys have adopted the C100 as the problem solver from the 5D. And the ALEXA has wiped everybody else. You can rent an ALEXA+6Ultraprimes+oConnor tripod+MB, FF, Battss, for less than 1k/day. No sense in using anything else.
BMCC are currently being used as a B camera to the ALEXA, due to its creamy image, on €500k-1m tv commercials). Canon image is too video-y and doesn't match that color/dynamic range due its 8 bit codec.

A freelancer buying a camera today sees a great broadcast 8 bit Canon camera that's impossible to shoulder mount VS a 10bit+RAW+60p-200p+4K... for roughly the same price. Or a BMCC *for free* if getting Resolve that due to its film look blows any C-cam for commercials/controlled shootings. If opting for the Canon say goodbye to clients demanding slow-mo, quality green screeen, film-look, etc etc.
In the upper end, Sony's F55 and now the new ARRI AMIRA have just destroyed IMO the C500 (RED could be a contender, but it's too unreliable and no serious DP wants to compromise its reputation with them anymore, so they're gathering dust here).

THIS is what Canon must face from now on, until it releases new models.
Click to expand...

+1 Damn FxXxing tools.
 
Shawnvfx said:
I believe C series is gonna have Firmware updates in the coming years. If you dont hear from Canon for more than 12 months , then its time for their new product announcement.

And I also believe we are only using 40-50% of the sensor technology, The image makes me think that the possibility is endless.

So I think you have to wait till Canon announces the other 50% of the technology throughout the Firmware.

Something like a 4K option like a FS 700 you know, similar idea, eventhough 4K makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...

I think you're totally right about what the sensor is capable - if you've seen raw footage from the C500, you know that this is indeed an incredibly powerful sensor. Likely the weak spot in the C300 is not just the Digic DV III chip, but also the mpeg encoder. I disagree that using a Canon product means you can't get very filmic footage, or quality green screen. I get that stuff everyday; mostly for television broadcast. I'm not sure what the market is like on the other side of the pond, but in the States very few productions (aside from micro-indies) are doing any work with BMCC's due to image issues (moire & black spot highlights). C300 cams are quite a bit more popular, even for b-cam footage next to Arri's and Red's.

The next iteration of Cinema EOS cams will certainly be very interesting - I know that Canon is working on 4K internal capture with CFast cards. Canon is typically slower than other manufacturers, and while others seem to rush experimental products out to market that try to do everything, Canon typically takes their time to make product that works at the top of the game and introduces at the time the market is actually looking for it.

On forums, we like to be on the bleeding edge of where technology is heading - but in the real production world, on the whole, things move quite a bit slower. This is why Arri feels comfortable about releasing a 2K camera for $30K (estimated, approximately). Heck, I was still doing tape-based capture through 2010 :)

The Amira is certainly going to be a very, very good camera and likely quite popular. The big question mark is that it's all about "good enough" these days, and are productions becoming less inclined to pay a premium for a camera even if it's worth it? No doubt Arri is realizing this, and Canon, too.
 
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