C100: What's your Default Shutter setting?

nedcam

nedcam

Well-known member
As a creature of old habit I just double it, at 180 degrees. If I'm shooting 30 frames I set at 1/60th if my menu is in fractions.

However, a client mentioned they wanted to grab stills from some shots. I feel I'm getting some motion blur at 60 degrees. For instance, yesterday I am in the front passenger seat leaning out the window filming a big sheep dog in the rear passenger seat sticking his head out the window. Lots of hair flying. But even in interviews I'm not really satisfied, perhaps it's just AVCHD at 4:2:0? This is with me viewing the SD card in a laptop using QT Player though, it may be sweeter once in FCP?

I really don't feel like changing the shutter speed throughout the day because I do a lot of doc shooting and am in many different situations throughout the day so I will forget. Are you folks in similar situation using 120 degrees as a matter of course? I'm thinking that may be a happier medium, especially when clients want to grab stills and don't mention it?

Thanks
 
As image resolution increases, even in mainstream, I think we'll see more and more of faster shutter speeds. With 4k, you pretty much need a static shot to see the resolution; start moving the camera with a 180 degree shutter and you might as well shoot HD.

I wouldn't hesitate myself to opt for slightly untraditional shutter speeds with shooting 4k with the 1Dc. 8MP amounts to a fair still image. If I KNOW will will want to pull frames I'll often go for 1/80, through 1/100 to 1/125 when at 25p. Strobey motion is less of an issue than what you might first think. Depends on the subject perhaps—and the intended look.

For documentaries, events and corporate it's a valid option, no doubt.
 
I generally only ever shoot at 180 degrees.

But if you've got to compromise for the sake of getting stills without too much motion blur, you've gotta do what you've gotta do.

Otherwise take a stills camera? Does your client know the visual impact of higher shutter rates?

Ben.
 
The perfect shutter speed for your client is for them to hire a stills photog!. HAHA!. I's hard to pull clean stills at a shutter speed of 50 or 60. I always shoot 180 degree.
 
I've been hearing about how 4K, 6K, 8K, etc. video will replace still photography for years now. Well, I don't see how this will ever work out. That is why I never bought into the idea of pulling stills from the 1DC in 4k video mode as an alternative to actually shooting stills. The shutter speed has to be compromised and then your video and your stills are inferior. When you consider the AF, crop factor, aspect ratio, and jpeg codec, you'd get better image quality shooting raw stills with an 8 year old 30D than by pulling 4K jpegs out of 1DC video.
 
Shutter speed is a very simple and easy to understand image property. I'd be surprised if there is anyone here on these forums who don't know the 180 degree rule, or "standard". The shortest of explanations coupled with a few representative images immediately makes clear how shutter times effect footage.

Any discussion on the topic is bound to be philosophical in nature. What look to YOU (any reader) prefer?

24 fps and 180 deg provides some dreamy qualities. It's the standard. It's the holy graal: film (i.e. Hollywood). But as newer technology and higher resolutions push forward, demand will increase for crisp imagery. The HFR debate is just heating up. As we approach image perfection, people reach for the next buzz word: character. Here the process reverses and we degrade the image again: old glass, poor optics with exotic names, banged up old lenses that used to sit on Russian old satellites are all the rage…

Celluloid Dream said:
I've been hearing about how 4K, 6K, 8K, etc. video will replace still photography for years now. Well, I don't see how this will ever work out.
Click to expand...

There are situations where both moving images and high res raw stills are desirable. If the client doesn't want to budget for both, or if space reasons or other limitations won't allow for two simultaneous photographers and it's a one time event, we might have make-a-pick scenario. It is in this case pulling frames can be an option.
Another scenario is that you have a RED Epic Dragon. It shoots all its frames in 19MP compressed raw regardless of film or stills. It has recorded the highest score ever on DxO mark with a 101, beating all the Canons, Nikons, Sonys, Pentax' and what have you. If you have this camera, you can kind of have it both ways if your work allows for sub-optimal ergonomics, power supply, monitoring and such things.

Anyway, 1Dc users need not fret, since with the push of a button and the turn of a wheel, we can switch from 4k movie mode to 1Dx 18MP stills mode. Here, the AF, non-crop factor and raw makes it a fair stills option. And, incidentally, if my "movie camera" was just perfectly positioned, odds are in my favor that my "stills" camera will be the same when I flip the switch.

Image capture seems to be a coin with many many sides. Each time you flip it, it opens a new door to peek through. The camera is just a tool, use it as you see fit. Seeing how saturated with photographers the world has become, anyone willing to go the other way is a fresh gush of air.
 
Well, I did have a still camera with me, my Canon 70D because I was Field Producing & Directing for an Animal Planet show and part of my job is I have to come up with ten quality BTS stills for publicity. I hired a DP with a C300, Sony F800 and Doggie Cam Go Pro but brought my C100 "just in case" I could grab some gravy shots. When I hung out very far the passenger window of a Yukon (BTW you can't see any of the C100's LCD doing that) I aimed at the dog with his head out the rear window. The LAST thing I want to do is do it again with the 70D, that's why I felt they should be able to grab a still from the video footage.

However, when I spot checked it in QT Player, whenever I froze the video, no individual frame is crisp. Maybe when I have some time I will do a real import, up it to Pro Res, convert to P in X, and perhaps it will look better.

Had I not been in a rush I suppose I should have brought the shutter up to a divisible factor of 60, such as 120 or 240 degrees?

Thanks for your opinions.
 
It won't matter if the camera is a 16K EPIC SCARLITE MYSTERIUS MONSTER X-FACTOR with 20-bit raw. You don't get crisp stills of moving things at 1/48th to 1/125th shutter speeds and you don't get good video with natural motion blur at 1/250th and higher. You get one or the other or you get the unprofessional result of a compromise.
 
Celluloid Dream said:
You don't get crisp stills of moving things at 1/48th to 1/125th shutter speeds and you don't get good video with natural motion blur at 1/250th and higher.
Click to expand...

I hope you understand that it's not about getting EVERY frame sharp. We're simply talking about increasing the number of sharp frames available for still export. And I can assure you that with a stabilized camera in a natural interview situation, or in a documentary environment with someone working with their hands or whatever, there will be significantly more sharp frames going from 48/50/60 to 100 or 125.

Once that is established, it will matter if those frames are 6k, 4k or HD. Or compressed jpeg or compressed raw.
 
I noticed on one of my shots for a client that when I was at a setting of 24p with 1/48 shutter, f2.8 and at about 6400 ISO doing an interior shot and panning right to left, there was strobing or ghosting. I edited in a 23.97 timeline and rendered the same. I am thinking with this sensor it might be safe to up it to 1/100?
 
Upon reflecting on this, I don't think ANY frame using a higher shutter speed will be sharp if the background is whirring by and the sheep dogs fur is flapping at a high rate. So perhaps this isn't a matter of choosing a higher shutter speed but rather the nature of the shot? Nothing is the frame is not moving at a high rate of speed.

Thanks
 
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Ned,
I do wildlife, documentaries and now into features. Since I come from stills background, I am more comfortable with the use of shutter speed rather than shutter angle terminology.

For C300, 180 degree shutter at 24p translates to 1/48th of second shutter speed. For certain fast moving animals like leopard etc, when the shutter speed is higher ie. around 1/125 or so, the individual frames are sharper. 1/120th second shutter = 72 deg shutter angle

I change the shutter speed depending on situations. However, I agree that one can easily forget and regret later.

In the case you mentioned, the dog and you are stationary (in the relative sense) ie. both of you are moving at the same speed. So you should get the head right, background blurred. In photography we try to do that and use a term called motion blur. To freeze the movement of the dog's fur, you have to use a much higher shutter speed ie. around 1/250 and higher depending upon wind, vehicle speed etc. For stills I would raise the shutter speed to 1/750 and upwards. Such high shutter speeds, apart from needing higher ISOs, may not be very pleasing to the eye in the video.

In still photography, we do pan blur and motion blur. In pan blur, we move the camera along the direction of the movement using a low shutter speed and focus on the subject. So the subject is relatively sharp and the background is blurred. This helps in the subject standing out and giving an impression of blur. At times we use flash to freeze or create a sharp outline with some blur due to the motion. So if you get the dog's eyes sharp and the hair flying in the wind and background blurred, that is perfectly acceptable as a still image. You may please check this link and scroll down to point no. 10 : http://www.indiawilds.com/diary/how-to-shoot-a-good-photo/

I don't fully agree with RED and Canon that at 4K you can pull down stills and use it. There are some big caveats as to in which conditions you can use such stills. Having said that, I agree with Canon that it is easier to get those fleeting expressions if you are pulling a still from video.
Cheers,
Sabyasachi
 
nedcam said:
Upon reflecting on this, I don't think ANY frame using a higher shutter speed will be sharp if the background is whirring by and the sheep dogs fur is flapping at a high rate. So perhaps this isn't a matter of choosing a higher shutter speed but rather the nature of the shot? Nothing is the frame is not moving at a high rate of speed.

Thanks
Click to expand...

It's exactly the same like with photography. You need a motion stopping shutter speed. For sports this easily ventures into 1/500 or faster.

The speeds I mention earlier are to accommodate a handheld camera, or a seated person moving naturally.

Shooting from a moving platform such as a moving car, flight deck of a carrier or the top of a bi-plane takes other measures. Likewise the opposite: you are stationary but your subject is moving fast (like that dog). There IS a motion freezing shutter speed, but at those high settings you will get very strobey motion, if played back as film. Unless you treat your film camera as a high fps stills camera and shoot fast shutter video solely to grab stills.
 
Like Andree pointed out, there's a difference between wanting most/everything usably sharp for frame grabs, vs just wanting more possibilities for a frame grab

this is why i usually shoot 1/60 for 24 frames, it's not discernibly different in motion from 1/48, and it makes the occasional frame grab a smidgen more possible to pull and look good. Yes it's a small amount, but i've gone through plenty of dailies looking for a few shots to pull to know that there are a lot of times a great frame is just a hair too blurry to be a nice grab.

if you want every frame grabbable then no, that's just generally poor videomaking and like erik said, get a photographer
 
nedcam said:
If I'm shooting 30 frames I set at 1/60th if my menu is in fractions. However, a client mentioned they wanted to grab stills from some shots. I feel I'm getting some motion blur at 60 degrees.
Click to expand...

First, by your phrasing methinks maybe you think 60° = 1/60 sec. So let me expound, even if that's not what you were thinking, so that I can appear smart. At 24 frames per second, 1/60 of a second would be a shutter angle of 144°. Conversely, a 60° shutter angle would yield a shutter speed of 1/144 sec. Good, now that we have that out of the way and I look smarter to you all: I agree with everyone. These two points are both true, at the same time, in the same space:

(1) For the best motion-picture capture and simultaneously best still-picture capture, the right™ thing to do would be to hire a person (or crew) for each, using a camera for each. Celluloid Dream astutely summarized a facet of your dilemma:

You don't get crisp stills of moving things at 1/48th to 1/125th shutter speeds and you don't get good video with natural motion blur at 1/250th and higher
Click to expand...

(2) But as Darren Levine astutely noted, shooting at about 1/60 of a second (144°) is a nice compromise that might get you a few usable stills, if that's the kind of cheap person you are (or your client is). After all, haven't some Hollywood movie posters done just that? To silence all doubt I present as an example a still I extracted while filming my rambunctious cat with a standard-definition MiniDV camcorder:

aspen.jpg​

He was actually rolling all around in this chair, and most of the stills were junk. But this is one where he was changing direction.
 
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