What's wrong with Christian filmmaking?

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

As someone who's spent 7 years now in the faith-based arena and spent a ton of time studying it...Barry got it right many posts ago. It's a genre, with an audience who actually likes what they're getting.

Obviously the writer of the original article that was referred to by the original post on this thread... was criticizing what was being produce in the genre.

Just to refresh...

http://thimblerigsark.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/whats-wrong-with-christian-filmmaking/

Here's a paragraph from that blog article:
---
The review (of the film "God is Not Dead"(2014) found here http://gospelspam.com/gods-not-dead-film-review/) had plenty of good to say about the film, but also plenty to say about the problems currently found in Christian filmmaking – specifically the writing. This issue brings up strong feelings and thoughts in me, as I am a Christian, and I have been a student of screenwriting since 2007. I’ve written screenplays (both produced and un-produced), and have recently published my first novel, Thimblerig’s Ark. I felt led to respond to the article in the comment section at Gospelspam, and then decided to reproduce the bulk of my comments here.
---

Since I would assume that both of these writers 'like' the genre, the blog writer at thimblerigsark.wordpress.com is the one who proposed several 'reasons' why such genre films fail/arelessthan.

I see this discussion addressing that question which is 'why such films are not well received beyond the core audience'.

Gillvane in the original post reduced the article's answers to 'why christian genre films fail/arelessthan' to the following:

-----
To summarize, most Christian films are:

1. Safe
2. Predictable,
3. Preaching to the choir
4. Always wrapped up with a nice happy ending
---

I believe these are the points of the original article writer.

As it is these pretty much sum up my lack of interest in the genre, beyond just simply being an 'outsider' of the christian faith.

 

[reygun]

I see faith based films having two objectives:
1) galvanize its members
2) arrest new members

Basically, I see these faith based films as pep rallies (Christian or otherwise). Metaphorically, as a Steelers fan, why on Earth would I want to sit through a feature about the Cowboys?

 

[mainstreetprod]

I see faith based films having two objectives:
1) galvanize its members
2) arrest new members

Basically, I see these faith based films as pep rallies (Christian or otherwise). Metaphorically, as a Steelers fan, why on Earth would I want to sit through a feature about the Cowboys?

You could use the same metaphor to explain why many Christians like to watch faith based fare as opposed to most Hollywood movies. If 99% of Hollywood films are about the Steelers, why would they pay good money to sit through one of those when they can watch a Cowboys pep rally?

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

You could use the same metaphor to explain why many Christians like to watch faith based fare as opposed to most Hollywood movies. If 99% of Hollywood films are about the Steelers, why would they pay good money to sit through one of those when they can watch a Cowboys pep rally?

By the same token... one can always wonder why one's team is always out of the playoffs or Super Bowl... and of course there's always Cubs fans...

In my area the Chargers are always whining about needing a 'new stadium' or threatening to relocate if not given such... My attitude for all 'pro' sports is good riddance... but at the core, whether I like the team or not, they should be playing better to get that sort of 'community' support for a new stadium (millions if not billions of out lay for construction. San Diego's "Petco Park" for the Padres cost according to the wiki $450M at the time...).

 

[Gillvane]

I see faith based films having two objectives:
1) galvanize its members
2) arrest new members

Basically, I see these faith based films as pep rallies (Christian or otherwise). Metaphorically, as a Steelers fan, why on Earth would I want to sit through a feature about the Cowboys?

I see good films as having an almost universal appeal as far as the core story goes. You know the standard themes we always come back to, love conquers all (or doesn't if it's a tragedy), Man versus Nature, Individual versus society. Who isn't a fan of that?

But if the theme of your story is not love conquers all but I love Jesus, yea you have narrowed down your audience quite a bit.

 

[firehawk]

Number 5 on your list kind of defeats the point of a Christian film. A Christian film is just like all niche markets. They reach an intended select audience. They are never intended for the masses, except for the fact that there are many Christians. But they are intentionally branded as Christian films for whatever reason, be it the convictions of the makers, or the marketing sensibilities of the producers.

Yes. Except there can be more than one goal of a Christian film. Such a film could be one that is targeted at Christians (or at least people who would title themselves that) which is basically what is usually produced. Mom and Dad or the Sunday school teacher see it as a safe film they can go see that will be non-offensive and maybe even call it "good for you". Kind of like you tune to the easy listening station on your radio because you know what to expect. An easy feel good song.

However, there could be another objective of a Christian film and that would be one of true evangelical work that's aimed at everyone. And that's when the goal would be to try to reach as many people as possible. They might come for one of the other elements but a full strength dose of evangelism is the core element.
My post was in reference to the latter type of film. If the film is to reach people with a Billy Graham strength message then it's best shot is probably to 'bring 'em all in and then pierce them with the message. Some will understand the film on one of the outer layers and enjoy it, some will get it and be deeply affected, some will be offended once it hits them, some will applaud it.
It would have to succeed at being a good film containing the elements listed previously. Good, smart writing and good characters that people will relate to and like. It has to be a good film in order to have a chance of delivering a message that many people wouldn't come for otherwise.

Kind of like Mike invites his (non-Christian) friend Bob to play basketball with some Christians. Bob likes basketball and has fun but also ends up hearing a message from someone he has grown to like/respect that has a major impact on him. Mike did a little work of evangelism. Bob didn't come for the evangelism, he came for the basketball which he enjoyed. Yet the objective of reaching him was accomplished.

 

[Gord.T]

Well, here is a conversation that will never end like on CNN. Carry on

 

[Gillvane]

Kind of like Mike invites his (non-Christian) friend Bob to play basketball with some Christians. Bob likes basketball and has fun but also ends up hearing a message from someone he has grown to like/respect that has a major impact on him. Mike did a little work of evangelism. Bob didn't come for the evangelism, he came for the basketball which he enjoyed. Yet the objective of reaching him was accomplished.

I think this is deceitful and therefore inherently repellant. Today Bob has twitter and Rotten Tomatoes. Bob's friends will tell him the basketball game is just a clever ruse to proselytize, and Bob being forewarned will skip it.

I think the only shot you have at a wider audience is if your intent is to entertain and you are doing that from a "Christian perspective". But the minute your intent is to proselytize, that will be immediately spotted and rejected by anyone that isn't already part of the choir.

For example if your character is Christian and needs guidance it might be perfectly normal that he or she would seek out a Priest for counsel, versus say the local bartender or whomever. I think that's fine if it's consistent with your character and driven by the plot. But if you send your character to the priest for guidance because you want to get out the "good word" it's doomed from the start.

 

[David W. Richardson]

Number 5 on your list kind of defeats the point of a Christian film. A Christian film is just like all niche markets. They reach an intended select audience. They are never intended for the masses, except for the fact that there are many Christians. But they are intentionally branded as Christian films for whatever reason, be it the convictions of the makers, or the marketing sensibilities of the producers.

Not necessarily.

I'm in script development on a romantic comedy called 'A Scottish Fling'. While the central story line has nothing to do with religion, the female lead character is a devout Christian who lives what she believes. She's a positive character that everyone loves. She's strong, confident, smart, funny and loving.

Her name is Heather. In the story, a guy who is new in town -- Bryan -- begins to fall for her. They have a good time at a Saturday festival, and Bryan wants to see her again. So he asks, "What are you doing tomorrow?" She replies, "Tomorrow???" as if it should be obvious what she's doing. Cut to the next day -- Heather is in church with her family, singing a hymn, and Bryan is standing beside her -- a fish out of water, trying his best.

Bryan comes to love Heather because of her values and who she is as a person. Unfortunately, the comedic part of the story revolves around the fact that he told her a lie when they first met, and it's mushroomed into something huge ever since. But he's been afraid to tell her the truth for fear of losing her. Ultimately he does tell her the truth, and she is furious. But then she comes back. Bryan is surprised. She explains, "Bryan....you lied to me. Are you sorry?" "Yes, with all my heart." "Are you ever going to do it again?" "No, never." "You confessed, you're sorry, you've repented, and I forgive you." He looks at her questioningly. She smiles. "It's a Christian thing. You should try it. It's good for the soul." And they live happily ever after.

I think you can show Christian values and principles, and deliver solid Christian messages, within a mainstream storyline that will appeal to a broader audience.

 

[filmguy123]

skipped the discussion to give my untainted thoughts...

As a Christian, here is my take on what is wrong with christian filmmaking (and of course, disclaimer: i haven't seen nearly every Christian film out there, so obviously I am referring only to those I have seen):

* crappy writing. Characters go into mini-sermons instead of acting natural. As if the writers feel they have to spell out some theology or lesson plan
* canned stories, poor acting
* make the mistake of thinking 'christianity' is somehow seperate from 'real life'. To me, movies like "The Help" and "The Blindside" are more Christian movies than cheeseball films like "Fireproof". Even a film like "500 Days of Summer", depending on your theology, is more Christian. When that movie came out I just went through something very similar and it gave me tremendous hope and literally, I felt 100% better after walking out of the theater.
* generally afraid to explore anything not G-rated or PG at best
* often technically inept without artistic endeavor but into set/color design, cinematography, etc.
* wrap everything up in airtight story / clear meaning rather than using subtly to allow the viewer to find meaning
* usually BORING

Saw an interview with Bono the other day where he talks about his Christian faith. This guy is AWESOME because he is GOOD at what he does, he is not preachy, and his actions demonstrate his faith. This guy writes brilliant music and isn't afraid to let people interpret the lyrics as they will. He sings of life, faith struggles, real issues, and also just has fun with his music. He isn't showy and preachy and annoying about what he believes; rather he simply allows his music to be and his life to inspire change and fight for justice.

The Christian filmmaking community needs a "Bono": someone who can make films that appeal TO EVERYONE, not because they aren't Christian, but because they are genuine and true. To me, a Christian film should simply be a film that tells an amazing, meaningful, challenging story in an authentic way - something that should raise more questions in us than it should answer - something that should inspire, or challenge, or give hope - and it should displays excellence in every piece of the craft. The problem is most Christian films are designed as visual mini-sermons.

Just last week I was sitting next to someone watching a Christian film on their iPad, audio on, and overheard some dialogue and just wanted to cringe as the character goes into a dissertation about what money can do to a person. I mean seriously, who talks like this guy? So forced and canned. JUST TELL THE STORY AND LET THE AUDIENCE DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS! ahhh

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

* crappy writing. Characters go into mini-sermons instead of acting natural. As if the writers feel they have to spell out some theology or lesson plan

I think you can put this under the heading of 'expository' dialog. As such is not limited to 'christian' or 'religious' films.

The problem of course here is that perhaps the writers are in the belief that the viewer, who is not christian, may not understand 'subtext'.

For example, say a character says 'I'll go where ever you go'...

How many non-bible reading viewers would leap to the story, "Naomi and Ruth"...

Enter in a long exposition on the story...
[scrippet]
EXT. PARKING LOG - DAY

JANE walks with MARY through a dilapidated strip mall. Four men, smoking, stand next to a dive bar entrance. They eye Jane and Mary.

JANE
Where ever you go, I'll go.

MARY
Oh, yes like Ruth says to Naomi, when Naomi, when there was a famine in Israel, came to live in Moab with her husband and sons, one of whom married Ruth, but after the death of her husband and two sons, and the famine had abated, as she was returning to Israel, Ruth pleaded to go with her, with the words, whither thou goest, I will go.

Mary looks over to the guys smoking.

MARY
(hushed)
Goodness gracious look at those men smoking, can we walk over there?

Jane and Mary step out into the parking lot area.

[/scrippet]

 

[Gillvane]

To me, a Christian film should simply be a film that tells an amazing, meaningful, challenging story in an authentic way - something that should raise more questions in us than it should answer - something that should inspire, or challenge, or give hope - and it should displays excellence in every piece of the craft. The problem is most Christian films are designed as visual mini-sermons.

That sounds like the original Star Wars, but I'm sure Star Wars would not qualify as a "Christian" film. There's certainly some messianic elements in there, but almost every Hero Story has those.

 

[BobbyMurcerFan]

skipped the discussion to give my untainted thoughts...

As a christian, here is my take on what is wrong with christian filmmaking (and of course, disclaimer: I haven't seen nearly every christian film out there, so obviously i am referring only to those i have seen):

* crappy writing. Characters go into mini-sermons instead of acting natural. As if the writers feel they have to spell out some theology or lesson plan
* canned stories, poor acting
* make the mistake of thinking 'christianity' is somehow seperate from 'real life'. To me, movies like "the help" and "the blindside" are more christian movies than cheeseball films like "fireproof". Even a film like "500 days of summer", depending on your theology, is more christian. When that movie came out i just went through something very similar and it gave me tremendous hope and literally, i felt 100% better after walking out of the theater.
* generally afraid to explore anything not g-rated or pg at best
* often technically inept without artistic endeavor but into set/color design, cinematography, etc.
* wrap everything up in airtight story / clear meaning rather than using subtly to allow the viewer to find meaning
* usually boring

saw an interview with bono the other day where he talks about his christian faith. This guy is awesome because he is good at what he does, he is not preachy, and his actions demonstrate his faith. This guy writes brilliant music and isn't afraid to let people interpret the lyrics as they will. He sings of life, faith struggles, real issues, and also just has fun with his music. He isn't showy and preachy and annoying about what he believes; rather he simply allows his music to be and his life to inspire change and fight for justice.

The christian filmmaking community needs a "bono": Someone who can make films that appeal to everyone, not because they aren't christian, but because they are genuine and true. To me, a christian film should simply be a film that tells an amazing, meaningful, challenging story in an authentic way - something that should raise more questions in us than it should answer - something that should inspire, or challenge, or give hope - and it should displays excellence in every piece of the craft. The problem is most christian films are designed as visual mini-sermons.

Just last week i was sitting next to someone watching a christian film on their ipad, audio on, and overheard some dialogue and just wanted to cringe as the character goes into a dissertation about what money can do to a person. I mean seriously, who talks like this guy? So forced and canned. Just tell the story and let the audience draw their own conclusions! Ahhh

Amen!!

 

[David W. Richardson]

Just last week I was sitting next to someone watching a Christian film on their iPad, audio on, and overheard some dialogue and just wanted to cringe as the character goes into a dissertation about what money can do to a person. I mean seriously, who talks like this guy? So forced and canned. JUST TELL THE STORY AND LET THE AUDIENCE DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS! ahhh

However, cringe-worthy expository dialogue can be found in all genres of film, including mainstream, big budget Hollywood productions. Sad but true.

 

[mainstreetprod]

However, cringe-worthy expository dialogue can be found in all genres of film, including mainstream, big budget Hollywood productions. Sad but true.

Absolutely true. But Hollywood films are made on million dollar budgets with vetted scripts written by professional writers, so they have no excuse. Most Christian films are made by people who might be found on DVX user and who usually do not have access to professionally written scripts.

One thing I can say for sure- my latest Christian feature contains absolutely no cringe worthy expository dialogue (see signature) :happy:

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Most Christian films are made by people who might be found on DVX user and who usually do not have access to professionally written scripts.

While it is true that one could safely say most 'outsiders' did not have access to materials to write and create films in the past, it is not true today. 30 years ago, I had to make the trek to Larry Edmonds downtown Hollywood bookshop to 'find' real scripts for films. The only 'script writing' book that was even published in any significant quantities, was Syd Fields' book on the subject. (Before that there was virtually nothing on the subject...).

These days, one can find 'real' scripts online by the hundreds, ranging from classics to current 'in theaters'. Studios are publishing their scripts for the 'Best Picture Nominees' or even for those they want to be 'considered' before the nominations come out.

To be sure that most nolo budget film makers can not get the funding to do big budget FX films...

But I'll bet that something like "Dallas Buyer's Club"(2013) could be made by a 'christian' filmmaker. Same for "No Country for Old Men"(2007), or similar films that are set out side of the major east coast/west coast urban areas.

In the case of "No Country for Old Men", there is a 'subtext' of fate/predestination vs free will. Perhaps the ordinary viewer did immediately pick up on this... but in some sense this film could be a very 'christian' film, if it isn't already. And how many 'christian' films would have the 'bad guy' limp a way to live another day.

Fundamentally Film is a visual medium... as you have indicated with your silent film project. Hence the need for 'exposition' is totally(ok... maybe a few dialog cards help...) absent if the film maker remember that basic fact.

But by the same token, often 'visuals' are objectionable, and hence not shown, and the dialog is used, filled with euphemisms, to cover that lack of visual story. This to me is one of the most significant 'reasons' for shoddy dialog.

The other reason is very often most people's experience of Movies is not in fact Movies but Television... TV dialog is heavy in wordiness, and I consider this due to the fact that many Radio writers transitioned to TV writers, and so their style was aural rather than visual. The other reason is that very often a TV series is setup to allow new viewers to enter into the continuing viewership 'easily' so there is often expository dialog to explain the past so a new viewer is not left in the dark. The other other reason is... it is cheaper to do dialog heavy shooting, in the sense that less location/props are needed. This is especially true for 'live audience' shows, and so has more of an affinity to stage plays than Movies.


One of the things I like about "Game of Thrones" and similar content being produced by HBO and others, is this lack of need to appeal to new viewers by such 'tricks' in dialog. The attitude is, if the new viewer wants to 'catch up', then buy/rent the previous seasons' disks and catch up...

 

[jghenderson]

God is Not Dead has been doing very well at the box office. The Kendrick Brothers films all make a lot of money. And let's not forget that The Passion of the Christ is still the highest grossing R rated film ever. There is absolutely a market for these films, the problem is that most Christian films do not have the budget and production value to be acceptable to modern audiences. However when they are made reasonably well they tend to make money.

I do agree, however, that most of them are far too sermonizing. I think the message is weakened when it is spelled out so clearly. Though I guess it becomes a discussion on whether preaching to the choir is enough, or if the films should be made to reach a wider audience.

 

[mainstreetprod]

The problem for faith based filmmakers who want to produce something on the cutting edge is that it is (generally) not a cutting edge audience. The people who buy the DVD's and fill the theaters WANT a strong message in their films. Distributors, knowing their market well, pick accordingly. I know of two higher budget films, one with a Hollywood cast and crew and one shot on Red that won a 100K prize in a festival, that took years to achieve distribution because they didn't fit the mold. Distributors will actually take a film with somewhat low production values ( such as shot on DSLR in ambient light) if the message is strong.

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

God is Not Dead has been doing very well at the box office.

Pure Flix Entertainment which is listed as a producer on "God is Not Dead"(2014), has about 21 production credits on IMDB. Some number are on NetFlix. I'm pretty sure my 'review' of "The Book of Daniel"(2013) would not be appreciated, since I would be reviewing based on such things as 'production values', 'acting', cinematography, and not how well the script conforms to the biblical narrative.

 

[firehawk]

I just saw God is Not Dead and it seems to overcome many of the "what's wrong with..." problems like no other film I've seen. Granted I am too busy too watch many films.
Production values, likable characters, good acting = check!. The story wasn't brilliantly multidimensional by any stretch but it did have several subplots that kept it from seeming like another 1 dimensional predictable (boring) feel good christian movie.
The biggest hurdle I see it facing would still be that many will avoid it due to it "being another one of those _____ christian films."
I've already started recommending it to others and (no surprise) those friends with great emnity and/or disinterest in God have zero interest in the film.

If any of you on this site were a part of this film, I commend you.