What's the life-span of a P2 memory card?
- Thread starter SnapShot
- Start date
... I ask 'cause I know Flash Memory life span is around 100,000 cycles (read/write), while it may seem like alot, doing shots on the same area of the memory could make it wear sooner (unevenly) in one chips memory area than others, and crap out the entire card.... does the P2 card support Wear Leveling, to stop uneven usage of one part of the memory? ... and there must be some time limit to the warranty, I don't think it's life time .. is it? 
dregenthal
Veteran
There is probably a greater liklihood of wearing out the connecter at the end of the card (or in camera) than anything else. Frankly, I'm not worried about either.
Good question though -- I would bet users will have long since "discarded" their (present capacity) P2's and moved up to the next iteration long before wearing them out.
It's interesting to me that most* people who have made the move to solid state are singing the praises while those who have not are still clinging to the rust glued to fragile plastic program.
Good question though -- I would bet users will have long since "discarded" their (present capacity) P2's and moved up to the next iteration long before wearing them out.
It's interesting to me that most* people who have made the move to solid state are singing the praises while those who have not are still clinging to the rust glued to fragile plastic program.
I'm one of those people singing the praises of solid state recording, I'm feed up with tape transports eating my media, but, with that said, I've also heard horror stories with Flash Media getting corrupt too, and Flash Memory can also get bad blocks within an otherwise 'good' flash chip, so, I guess there's nothing perfect in this world ... but, getting back to the P2 card, what's the warranty time, ... life time ... , or limited, and are they repairable after the warranty (if time limited)?
Is it known what chips are used (Storage Flash Memory) inside the P4?
I have Data Sheets from several manufacturers on Flash Memory, and also know Samsung released an 8GB flash chip not 8Gbit, rather 8GigaBytes in ONE chip, so, it may even be possible to have higher P2 Gig memory in the near future... like 128 GB cards.rogar-Love(DBG):
But the reliability of these flash chips still scares me a bit. (no pun intended)
Is it known what chips are used (Storage Flash Memory) inside the P4?
I have Data Sheets from several manufacturers on Flash Memory, and also know Samsung released an 8GB flash chip not 8Gbit, rather 8GigaBytes in ONE chip, so, it may even be possible to have higher P2 Gig memory in the near future... like 128 GB cards.
rogar-Love(DBG): But the reliability of these flash chips still scares me a bit. (no pun intended)
John Godden
Well-known member
ESD might kill these guys. Be careful when it's dry out.
Regards
JohnG
Regards
JohnG
Barry_Green
Moderator
The only stats I've heard are 100,000 read/write cycles, and 30,000 insertion/removal cycles.
WOW, so that means you can write/read longer than removing/inserting ... I guess it's better to read them directly from the camera, rather than taking them out to an external reader...Barry_Green said:
... yes ESD could also be a problem in dryer weather... but I'd think there would be some ElectroStatic protection built-in, I hope... even those USB Flash Key-Drive sticks offer ESD protection.John Godden said:
Does anyone know the chips used (flash memory) in the P2?
I'd like to get the data sheet from the manufacturer.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
p2 uses 4 sd cards in a raid, I believe.
Jason
Jason
are you saying they're using standard SD Flash cards? ... interesting!Ramjet1979 said:
so what's to stop anyone from swapping the ones in there now, for higher density ones of the same make, and quality, other than voiding the warranty of course, but, after the warranty, I see no problem.
MiniMan13
Well-known member
Thats what i was thinking when i read his post, You can get 8GB Sd cards for pretty cheap now, so maybe a Custom homebrew 32GB card is around the corner!!!SnapShot said:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2705725&CatId=0
Anyone want to break there warrenty and pop a couple of these babys in there?
hey, if it works, no need to get them 'retail' ... go directly to the manufacturer and buy wholesale in large quantities, and sell them to the film (video) industry peeps... .. OR ... even make a mass-buy from sites like dvxuser .. and share the savings ... you'd have to make sure the transfer speed is the same as the ones there now, but, I see no reason one of the same quality shouldn't work, unless panasonic has a firmware limit built-in, but, some assembly code geek should be able to 'crack' it.
.. OR ... even make a mass-buy from sites like dvxuser .. and share the savings ... you'd have to make sure the transfer speed is the same as the ones there now, but, I see no reason one of the same quality shouldn't work, unless panasonic has a firmware limit built-in, but, some assembly code geek should be able to 'crack' it.
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has anyone opened a P2 and taken some pictures of it? ... I'd be interested to get a look-see in there.erdiaz said:
(I haven't got one, or the camera for that matter, I'm still looking at what's available in the industry, but this camera and it's features are very interesting to me, I'd like to know, though, that things can be modified to save some cash, and cut corners
before I buy)It can't be all that hard to upgrade it, or modify somehow, unless panasonic made some priority circuit with the SD cards, but, I've been on sites where people modified things also thought to be 'not so easy' to do.
rogar-Smoke(DBG): rogar-Evil(DBG):
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Jason Ramsey
Admin
It's not just a storage device, is the thing. I'm not technically qualified to go into the in's and out's, but there is a lot more to p2 storage than just having something you can fit into the p2 slot, or being able to put larger sd cards into a p2 card. First, they aren't using just any over the shelf sd cards. Secondly, a p2 card is a complex thing, that has to communicate with the camera and be able to process various pieces of info back and forth with the camera. Including being mxf aware, etc. If it were so simple, we would have seen p2 alternatives that are cheap right now. But that is why there isn't. That is why p2 technology is still expensive.
Even Spec-comm said that them developing something as simple as a "p2 extension cord" (something that you plug into the p2 slot that has a cable that can run to a p2 slot that would be isolated from the camera. The point being to be able to hot swap without having to touch the camera) would have to sell for 1k for it to be worth it for them to make.
Like I said, I don't know enough about the technology to say exactly why it is not so simple, but I have read enough posts from people who do, to understand that it isn't that simple.
Plus, you would probably have to take into account that the firmware on the p2 card is not going to recognize anything beyond 8 gigs. So, even if you could get larger capacity sd cards to work, they still would probably be read as 8 gigs in size.
I seem to remember someone (Barry?) saying that if anyone could create a "generic" p2 card, it would be spec-comm. But then, they may be able to create larger ones, but cheaper is still up in the air.
Jason
*EDIT: And yes, I seem to remember spec-comm posting some pics of the inside of a p2 card here on the forum somewhere.
Even Spec-comm said that them developing something as simple as a "p2 extension cord" (something that you plug into the p2 slot that has a cable that can run to a p2 slot that would be isolated from the camera. The point being to be able to hot swap without having to touch the camera) would have to sell for 1k for it to be worth it for them to make.
Like I said, I don't know enough about the technology to say exactly why it is not so simple, but I have read enough posts from people who do, to understand that it isn't that simple.
Plus, you would probably have to take into account that the firmware on the p2 card is not going to recognize anything beyond 8 gigs. So, even if you could get larger capacity sd cards to work, they still would probably be read as 8 gigs in size.
I seem to remember someone (Barry?) saying that if anyone could create a "generic" p2 card, it would be spec-comm. But then, they may be able to create larger ones, but cheaper is still up in the air.
Jason
*EDIT: And yes, I seem to remember spec-comm posting some pics of the inside of a p2 card here on the forum somewhere.
Barry_Green
Moderator
SnapShot said:It can't be all that hard to upgrade it, or modify somehow, unless panasonic made some priority circuit with the SD cards, but, I've been on sites where people modified things also thought to be 'not so easy' to do.
That is what they've done. There's a RAID controller in there, and apparently enough processing power that the cards can receive their own firmware updates.
We had a post here from Spec-Comm (the only company I know of who has been able to engineer their own P2-compatible products, who probably have the best knowledge of P2 architecture outside of Panasonic themselves). And they said user-upgradeable cards ain't gonna happen. They didn't specify the reasons, but they said something like "trust us, it isn't possible."
With the FS-100 about to provided the equivalent of pNative recording, why is everyone waiting on the Cineporter?