What would it cost?

D

DNathan

Well-known member
I'm a wedding videographer and do three-camera shoots. I salivate over DOF, and would LOVE to make our third cam a 7D, using it exclusively for static video and shots to showcase DOF in our videos. I know little about SLRs, so I'm wondering what it would cost for accessories:

Telephoto (video)
1.5 hr battery
Anything else?

I'm guessing a 16gb sdhc card would hold an hour of wedding footage, and I have some extra class 4s. Thoughts?
 
That's a pretty broad question.

You can rent lenses for a week for about $50. The really nice canon glass is thousands, but you can get a nice 50mm 1.4 for about $350

Extra battery about $70

It uses CF cards, so that's gonna cost you. Anywhere from $100-200 depending on size/ brand
 
Thanks Tim. The main use would be an establishing shot of the crowd and the alter, so I don't even know if it requires a telephoto, though it would be nice on occasion. I'm assuming a telephoto would be more expensive.

I wouldn't be able to change a battery during a mass. Do they have batteries that last that long?

How much video footage would a CF card hold?

Thanks!!
 
I would like to add a few things to what Tim has said that were very important. First off, the 7D is going to be much better than the current video cameras that you have with regard to not only dof, but also resolution, unless you're shooting with a Genesis (fat chance of that!).

I shoot weddings using 2 HVX200's all at 720P 24PN. When using my 7D (17-55 2.8) lens, the 7D footage is noticeably better even after I down res in compressor to 960x720 24.

My thoughts are that using the 7D should be a tool, and not the only tool in your box. It's NOT a Video camera. It's a Still camera that shoots Video and that's a very big difference. You really can't run and gun with a 7D like you can with your HD video camera, but you can injest the 7D footage into your timeline very nicely.

As for lenses, you also need to remember that when it comes to video, you're dealing with different resolutions than with still photos. Canon has a fairly decent lens that comes with a special package for the 7D that is a 18-135mm 3.5. The package price is only $1995 and also includes an extra battery, lens hood and a UV filter. I've tried it out, and it's a pretty good lens, especially for the price.

As Tim mentioned, you can buy Canon batteries on line for around $70. You can also purchase some knock off batteries (which I've used and they are pretty good) for around $30.

CF cards right now is a big issue and I'm not going to get into it. All I can say is that I"ve been using Kingston 133's for sometime now, both for my still cameras, and also my 7D. I have a 32gb and it's rock solid.

my 2 cents.

eric
 
ericcosh said:
First off, the 7D is going to be much better than the current video cameras that you have with regard to not only dof, but also resolution, unless you're shooting with a Genesis (fat chance of that!).
Click to expand...
Or an EX1 or HPX300 or HMC40 or HV20/HV40. True resolution on the 7D isn't all that high.
 
Barry_Green said:
Or an EX1 or HPX300 or HMC40 or HV20/HV40. True resolution on the 7D isn't all that high.
Click to expand...

But is has a 35mm sensor.... ;)

I'm not even going to TOUCH why anyone would down sample to 960x720.... Only to go to 1280 or 1920 later. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

Or the part about injesting (sic) the footage into the timeline easily. People are struggling with 21Mbps AVCHD, and this is what... 48?
 
PerroneFord said:
I'm not even going to TOUCH why anyone would down sample to 960x720.... Only to go to 1280 or 1920 later. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
Click to expand...
Editing speed...

Or the part about injesting (sic) the footage into the timeline easily. People are struggling with 21Mbps AVCHD, and this is what... 48?
Click to expand...
7D is 48mbps. In Vegas I get about 2fps playback speed. Premiere CS4 can handle it in realtime (with its graphics card acceleration) for a few seconds, then it pukes too.

I think we're a generation away from having workable realtime; we need updates to the NLEs to support the graphics cards properly.
 
I could get a Redrock lens converter for one of my hmc150s, but I think it would be more expensive and way too large for a wedding.
 
Barry_Green said:
Editing speed...
Click to expand...

RAMMING SPEED! Seriously, this is what proxies are for.

Barry_Green said:
7D is 48mbps. In Vegas I get about 2fps playback speed. Premiere CS4 can handle it in realtime (with its graphics card acceleration) for a few seconds, then it pukes too.
Click to expand...

I get about 3-4 and that is with a new 8-core machine. I have one of the fastest graphics cards known to man, and it just sits there idle when in Vegas. Really pisses me off. Is Avid any better about using the card? Maybe I could swing that purchase next fiscal.


Barry_Green said:
I think we're a generation away from having workable realtime; we need updates to the NLEs to support the graphics cards properly.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Was the same with HDV when we had hot DV machines. And the fact that these NLEs leave the graphics card out of the loop is crazy. I might try that accelerator from Nvidia....
 
Vegas has always prided itself on running on any hardware, no matter what it was. Which is why they don't use the graphics card. Back in the days when Matrox was making hardware editing boards and you'd have to use a plug-in from them in order to use your RT2000 or whatever, I can see the logic in their approach.

But today is different. CUDA isn't a dedicated hardware board for video editing. It's an existing protocol, like DirectX is. Fundamentally it doesn't make much sense to me as to why to prevent what's already there from being taken advantage of; I mean, some programs even allow a checkbox for "use CUDA" or not.

One thing sure seems for certain -- it's not getting any easier out there. As new formats get introduced, starting with HDV, it's gotten progressively harder to edit. HDV, then XDCAM EX, then MPEG422 and AVCHD, and now native h.264 quicktimes, the handwriting is on the wall -- highly compressed long-GoP is going to be with us for quite some time to come. So for them to not take advantage of hardware that's already there, which greatly improves playback/decoding (and encoding!) seems silly. At least, especially with the way CUDA is implemented, being a hardware abstraction layer (like DirectX).

As for an accelerator, are you talking about the one from divide (or whatever it's called?) Or that specific hardware board that nvidia sells?

I don't know whether Avid takes advantage of graphics card acceleration or not. Premiere Pro does, and some of the consumer editors like Pinnacle Studio do IINM, and EDIUS is supposed to have a graphics acceleration plug-in coming. I'm sure this is a temporary phase and by the time the next generation launches their NLEs, the landscape should be quite a bit more friendly to h.264 editing.
 
DNathan said:
I could get a Redrock lens converter for one of my hmc150s, but I think it would be more expensive and way too large for a wedding.
Click to expand...

Just rent a DSLR and try it before you buy it. It is for some, but definitely is not for all.
 
NLEs should DETECT whether there is a GPU on board during install and use it if it's there. As you say CUDA isn't new and isn't dedicated hardware. Heck, even my free VirtualDub program can leverage it.

This is the software I was thinking of:

http://www.badaboomit.com/


When I was using Canopus, it came with PPro as the editor, and a dedicated Mpeg2 board. I don't necessarily like that option, but hooking into CUDA enabled graphics boards should be standard. I've seen that divide thing, and that looks promising, but I just don't cut AVCHD on my timelines. I render to it for BluRay purposes or for uploads, but other than that, I avoid it.

I need to find out more about Avid MC and see what it would offer me. Gonna be tough choosing between buying that, or a Nanoflash...

BTW, the workflow on this short I am working on is killing me. 40 scenes on the 5D. Converting to 24p, transcoding to an editing format, stabilizing in post... UGH.
 
Avid has a free trial version of MC for a (I think) 14 day period, and it's the full version.
With Avid you can just transcode to DNxHD and even my old dual core L/T can handle it.
Dave
 
DNathan said:
Thanks Tim. The main use would be an establishing shot of the crowd and the alter, so I don't even know if it requires a telephoto, though it would be nice on occasion. I'm assuming a telephoto would be more expensive.
Click to expand...

If you salivate over depth of Field, then use one of your existing video cameras to shoot the big wide establishing shots, because all current DSLRs are weakest when shooting wide with lots of detail. Consider the 7d for intimate portrait-type photos/footage where you can blue the background and isolate the happy couple from the background.

I think you would be fine with the kit lens. Battery opinions vary, but it seems to be good for several hours at least. I spent Wednesday evening experimenting with a 7d which a friend just bought after I suggested he consider it, and after 2 hours of evaluation the battery was still half-full.
 
daveswan said:
Avid has a free trial version of MC for a (I think) 14 day period, and it's the full version.
With Avid you can just transcode to DNxHD and even my old dual core L/T can handle it.
Dave
Click to expand...

I've thought of giving it a try, but just haven't had the time. And I'd want to use my 14 days wisely!
 
Barry, I shoot everything at 720P 24PN on my HVX which you are very familiar with. In order to conform to my footage, I shoot 1920x1080 24 with my 7D. I then made a droplet in Compressor using the DVCPRO HD 720 24 and put it on my desktop. All I do now is drop the 7D clip into the droplet and then import that new file into FCP and drop it on my timeline. That's it. It plays back in realtime and looks great.

I can't speak for Edius, Avid or Premiere Pro, only FC studio.

eric
 
Or an EX1 or HPX300 or HMC40 or HV20/HV40. True resolution on the 7D isn't all that high.
Click to expand...

I get really confused with resolution/bitrate formulas, etc. So even with quality glass I would get better image quality from an HMC40 than a 7D?
 
"better image quality" is determined by lots of different factors.

If you're talking strictly about "sharper images", then yes you'll get sharper images out of the HMC40.

But if you want to add in low light performance and shallow DOF, then the 7D will stomp the HMC40 in those categories.
 
Barry, at 71, my eyes must be totally failing me. When I place footage shot with my 7D next to footage shot with my HVX200, the 7D image looks to have better image quality.

On another thread you stated that any HD video camera can resolve 500 lines better than the 7D if that's the way I understand you statement. Are you saying that the 7D isn't as clear as SD which is 500 lines? Please explain.

Thanks,

eric
 
I've noticed that the general public is much more wow'd by a sexy shallow DOF shot, as opposed to a very sharp but deep dof shot.

Also consider the stealth-factor of an HDSLR, especially at events like weddings where people will be pretty shy around a large video camera with rails and an adapter (until they've had a few :)), versus what they think is just a still camera.

The light is usually pretty low in chapels and churches, so to have the ability to get a clean image up around 800 ISO or even 1250+ is a big plus.

I wouldn't use those cheap batteries in a pro environment unless they show the battery level. I have some cheap ones, and they don't last as long, and you have no way to know when they will suddenly die. Good for testing, but that's it.

If you have a true canon battery on a full charge, *I think* you could get an hour out of it at least. Maybe 1 1/2 hours. You could always buy the external power adapter and use a big battery.

There is the possibility of overheating during long shoots. I've never come across this myself, but I'm in Vermont where winter lasts all year :)

You get 12 minutes of 24p video @ 1080 in 4 Gigs. So buy cards accordingly. Sounds like you would want a 32 Gig. $$
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top