What will the CCD's HVX-200 be?

reservoir said:
I think some people are hoping for Miracles
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You're absolutley right.
I just hope that the hype and speculation that have built up over this camera don't result is a post NAB letdown. We saw a similar thing happen last year after the XL2 was released...sure, many were happy about it, but it seemed like the majority were let down that it wasn't HDV, it didn't have bigger chips, etc etc etc.

I think the odds of that happening this time around are much slimmer, because the most exciting news flying around about this camera was released by Panasonic...so at least we know the specs are true.

I just hope we don't get too carried away in the next week.

I'd be happy with the specs we've already heard... turning water into wine would just be a bonus at this point.
:)
 
reservoir said:
I got chastised for saying this phrase about a month ago, but I'll say it again slightly toned down:

"I'll give my left *Jingle Bell* if the HVX200 had 2/3' CCD's. Hell, in that case I'd give both *Jingle Bells* and then try to sacrafice my family's and other DVXuser's *Jingle Bells* as well."

In saying that I believe of course it is complete nonsense that Panasonic would do something that daring. It's like saying "Hey, let's undercut our Varicam sales by 60,000 dollars per camera!!"

We only wish that would happen. Again, I think some people are hoping for Miracles. I'll be the first to admit, I'm almost convinced the new camera will be able to walk on water and turn water into wine *OUT OF THE BOX*!! Those are pretty amazing feats in and of itself....but seriously 2/3' inch on a 5-7k High Def camera.....that would be the ultimate miracle of "raising the dead" cause' it just *AIN'T GONE HAPPEN*. ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. WILL NOT HAPPEN. CAN NOT HAPPEN. CAN'T HAPPEN. REFUSES TO HAPPEN. WHAT OTHER WORDS CAN I USE? Ok...I'm done!!

~reservoir~
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Putting a 2/3" chips on would not undercut the Varicam because we know all the REAL-PROFESSIONALS will only buy a camera with REMOVABLE-MANUAL-PRO_LENS. The camera is worthless without it even if it had 2 inch chips.....It's still Pro-sumer.Know what I mean vern. ;) LOL
 
Does anyone have any idea how much current 2/3" cameras draw? I mean, come on.
How long would a 5000mAh battery last if it had larger chips? It's rhetorical. Not very long.
 
thisiswells said:
Does anyone have any idea how much current 2/3" cameras draw? I mean, come on.
How long would a 5000mAh battery last if it had larger chips? It's rhetorical. Not very long.
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With no tape drive, we don't know. It's anybody's guess. Just like this whole thread.
 
Wadro said:
Putting a 2/3" chips on would not undercut the Varicam because we know all the REAL-PROFESSIONALS will only buy a camera with REMOVABLE-MANUAL-PRO_LENS. The camera is worthless without it even if it had 2 inch chips.....It's still Pro-sumer.Know what I mean vern. ;) LOL
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NO sir!! Here is where you are wrong / uninformed, or are just bad with money!!

the REAL PROFESSIONALS will only buy a camera with a REMOVABLE-MANUAL-PRO LENS. The camera is worthless without it even if it had 2 inch chips.
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That's the most asinine statement I've ever read on this board. Worthless huh? Well it would seem to *ME* that a SMART PROFESSIONAL would opt to use the HVX200 (assuming 2/3' chips), grab a mini35 for their "precious pro lens" (assuming there will be one) and still save themselves 40k. But then again, that's a SMART PROFESSIONAL, not a REAL PROFESSIONAL... as you most eloquently put it.

Who cares either way? Why even argue about HVX 2/3 vs. Varicam BS when it won't happen anyway. That's like me arguing with you about the world ending tomorrow. I'd wake up in the morning just to be disappointed!! Or perhaps next we could argue about which superhero would win in a fight (as if one actually existed). I'd bet on superman....no wait.....he got killed once before. Um....Spawn....no.....Wolverine......no....AW.....SCREW IT!! I think this comparision goes light years beyond speculation and theory into the realm of pure fantasy!! Really, a 2/3' HD camera for 5-7k vs. a 60-150k HD cameras. Great comparisons!! Sounds like us *Fanboys* are getting a little carried away!!

But either way, you are totally right, without a pro lens system and 2/3 chips, the new HVX200 is absolutely worthless. Couldn't agree more!! Anything less than a handheld Varicam or CineAlta...and they shouldn't even waste their time releasing it!! I mean really...what MORONS Panasonic are!! Actually giving filmmakers what they want!! SONY is gonna' be so mad when they hear about these ludacris business practices!! DA!! :)

~reservoir~
 
Umm, not really. It would consume a lot more power. Any 2/3" camera, even when not recording to tape and without a tape even in the camera, goes through a brick-sized battery in about the same time our DVX's do--and bricks are eight times the size and weight--albiet most use an older-non-lithium battery technology which doesn't last as long. I think battery life is a relevant reason we just don't see larger chips in smaller cameras--and we're not just talking about chips, here. The prism would need to be 4x the size of the existing one, and so-on down the line. Everything needs to be bigger, including the exterior body. It is neither practical or sensible to believe there could even possibly be a larger sensor option in a camera with the physical restraints of a small handheld camera.

This really isn't even worth discussing. As you say, "It's anybody's guess" In this case, the concensus believes, on several internet forums and in the real world, that it is not reasonable to build a small handheld camera with larger CCD's at this price point, nor is it rational to think that Panasonic might just have "a bunch of extra's laying around since Varicam hasn't sold very well." Last time I checked, Varicam was outselling Cine Alta by eight to one. That is no small feat considering the fairly limited market cap on those who are buying high-definition large format cameras.

I will suspend my comment on battery life since I really do not know for certain what it will be without a tape mechanism. I do know from experience that larger cameras consume more power without a tape running. Certainly this may be traced to power consumption related to a tape assembly in the camera even if it isn't recording a tape. I do not know for certain.

I do know there is NO WAY the HVX200 will have 2/3" chips. It is impractical, improbable, non-sensical and every similar word in a thesaurus to describe the event. We will not see it.
 
Ah hell! Just give us three full frame chips! :grin:

But seriously, do you think we’ll ever see a prosumer model offered with a single 2/3 chip instead of three 1/3 chips?
Would it even be worth doing if three ½ chips were an option?

The other thing I was thinking about was how professionals who shoot HD are accommodated with full frame super 35mm sensors, so do you think the independent will ever be accommodated with super 16mm sensors? The Kinetta was kind of close to doing this, maybe they or somebody else still could?
 
Wadro, stop embarassing yourself. 2/3'' chips cost about 700 apiece for decent ones, I believe, and they also overheat easily, and are big and require big lenses.

Ever wonder why the varicam and sdx are so big?

It's not happening.

A single 2/3'' chip with a foveon-style sensor, oddly enough, MAY be a reality eventually. Panasonic is looking at foveon-style sensors for future cameras, but otherwise are looking into using continually SMALLER ccds, with better technology.

Still....I'd love to see it, too.
 
Ahhhh, who am I kidding, since when are the independents accommodated!?

...Oh wait...I forgot about the HVX200 :grin:
 
Policar said:
A single 2/3'' chip with a foveon-style sensor, oddly enough, MAY be a reality eventually. Panasonic is looking at foveon-style sensors for future cameras, but otherwise are looking into using continually SMALLER ccds, with better technology.

Still....I'd love to see it, too.
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I'd pee my pants out of sheer excitement if I saw "Fovean" imprinted on the side of any HD camcorder's lens barrel; be it Sony, Panny, JVC, or Canon...damn that would make me all gitty and full of glee
 
Digigenic said:
so do you think the independent will ever be accommodated with super 16mm sensors? The Kinetta was kind of close to doing this, maybe they or somebody else still could?
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Kinetta seems pretty cool.

Any word when Jeff (funny little one liners inside parenthesis on CML list) Kreines will update us again on this remarkable idea in camera making? I dig it.
 
thisiswells said:
Last time I checked, Varicam was outselling Cine Alta by eight to one.
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CORRECTAMUNDO!! Now why would Panny put 2/3' chips in their under 10k HD camera? If that was the case it would be more of a 15-20k camera.

Can people just quit hoping for Jesus Christ to return in the flesh at NAB and bless the HVX200 with everything from 2/3' chips to 128GB P2 cards and 4:4:4 color sampling!! Good God!! For the last time....It's UNDER TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!! 10K buys alot, but not that much. Otherwise there would be no high end market if everything you could think of was crammed into a handheld DVX form camera!! Come on April 18th, hurry the hell up and get here already. The closer it gets to NAB time, the more outlandish the speculation of the camera specs are getting. Let's hurry up and get some clarity already!!

If I knew I wouldn't miss anything (especially all the crazy talk like this), I'd just take a break from dvxuser.com until NAB day. But then I'd be wondering all day "What's going on?"

~reservoir~
 
Policar,
Where did you uncover that bit of information about Panasonic considering Fovean style sensors?
 
reservoir said:
NO sir!! Here is where you are wrong / uninformed, or are just bad with money!!

That's the most asinine statement I've ever read on this board. Worthless huh? Well it would seem to *ME* that a SMART PROFESSIONAL would opt to use the HVX200 (assuming 2/3' chips), grab a mini35 for their "precious pro lens" (assuming there will be one) and still save themselves 40k. But then again, that's a SMART PROFESSIONAL, not a REAL PROFESSIONAL... as you most eloquently put it.

I was being sarcastic.......trying to predict what the Pro's would say if it were true.

Who cares either way? Why even argue about HVX 2/3 vs. Varicam BS when it won't happen anyway. That's like me arguing with you about the world ending tomorrow. I'd wake up in the morning just to be disappointed!! Or perhaps next we could argue about which superhero would win in a fight (as if one actually existed). I'd bet on superman....no wait.....he got killed once before. Um....Spawn....no.....Wolverine......no....AW.....SCREW IT!! I think this comparision goes light years beyond speculation and theory into the realm of pure fantasy!! Really, a 2/3' HD camera for 5-7k vs. a 60-150k HD cameras. Great comparisons!! Sounds like us *Fanboys* are getting a little carried away!!

I agree, but it has livened up this forum that has died down a little over the past couple of days!

But either way, you are totally right, without a pro lens system and 2/3 chips, the new HVX200 is absolutely worthless. Couldn't agree more!! Anything less than a handheld Varicam or CineAlta...and they shouldn't even waste their time releasing it!! I mean really...what MORONS Panasonic are!! Actually giving filmmakers what they want!! SONY is gonna' be so mad when they hear about these ludacris business practices!! DA!! :)

Yeah!..... Now youve got it !! Whatever it has, I'm getting It.

~reservoir~
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Digigenic, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I was talking with Pansonic's Bill Kennedy and he said the future is smaller chips with better technology (unfortunately) but that Foveon-style chips are being researched for later since a single CCD takes up less space. I don't think this will mean bigger chips necessarily, but it's stll a step in the right direction.
 
Policar said:
Wadro, stop embarassing yourself. 2/3'' chips cost about 700 apiece for decent ones, I believe, and they also overheat easily, and are big and require big lenses.

Ever wonder why the varicam and sdx are so big?

It's not happening.

A single 2/3'' chip with a foveon-style sensor, oddly enough, MAY be a reality eventually. Panasonic is looking at foveon-style sensors for future cameras, but otherwise are looking into using continually SMALLER ccds, with better technology.

Still....I'd love to see it, too.
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Your opinion...I'm just learning and having fun, and buying 400 GB hard drives for $268.00 which was impossible 2 years ago. Sata competing with SCSI also dreaming. DVX 24P crazy. Windows XP Professional x64 Edition will initially support up to 128 gigabytes (GB) of RAM and up to 16 terabytes of virtual memory
What a fairytale.........One word Policar, Technology!! I have already stated I agree that 2/3" chips were far out, and I was going on what Jan had said and I misunderstod what she was talking about. Oh yeah Non-Linear editing under $1000.00 including camcorder, Nonsense.......Should I go On?

By the way. They are so big because people still believe SIZE-MATTERS. That is why everyone is so riled up over my post.

P.S. Ever heard of an Expresscard??

Just having fun, Wadro
 
reservoir said:
CORRECTAMUNDO!! Now why would Panny put 2/3' chips in their under 10k HD camera? If that was the case it would be more of a 15-20k camera.

Can people just quit hoping for Jesus Christ to return in the flesh at NAB and bless the HVX200 with everything from 2/3' chips to 128GB P2 cards and 4:4:4 color sampling!! Good God!! For the last time....It's UNDER TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!! 10K buys alot, but not that much. Otherwise there would be no high end market if everything you could think of was crammed into a handheld DVX form camera!! Come on April 18th, hurry the hell up and get here already. The closer it gets to NAB time, the more outlandish the speculation of the camera specs are getting. Let's hurry up and get some clarity already!!

If I knew I wouldn't miss anything (especially all the crazy talk like this), I'd just take a break from dvxuser.com until NAB day. But then I'd be wondering all day "What's going on?"

~reservoir~
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Hey man, I think you need join in on the fun!!
 
This really isn't even worth discussing. As you say, "It's anybody's guess" In this case, the concensus believes, on several internet forums and in the real world, that it is not reasonable to build a small handheld camera with larger CCD's at this price point, nor is it rational to think that Panasonic might just have "a bunch of extra's laying around since Varicam hasn't sold very well." Last time I checked, Varicam was outselling Cine Alta by eight to one. That is no small feat considering the fairly limited market cap on those who are buying high-definition large format cameras.

So how many Varicam's have been sold? And I didn't say, not many Varicam's have been sold. I said more HVX's will be sold than Varicams. But This is speculation.
 
Wow -- reservoir looks like his patience may be running out! :)

Seriously though, I think I agree with everything Reservoir said in this thread. I myself can't believe it when I see people writing "it'd BETTER be under $5,000, etc..." I mean, here Panasonic has dropped the cost of entry to 1080/24p from $100,000 down to $6,000 (my guess) or at least "under $10,000", and now people are saying that it'll have 2/3" chips and that it would be "overpriced" at $10,000? Amazing.

But, back on topic: I too would give Reservoir's left *Jingle Bell* if this new camera had 2/3" chips. I don't see any way on earth that would happen. I think they've so thoroughly advanced what we've been able to expect/hope for in a camera, that asking for 2/3" chips would just be pure fantasy. But, nobody official has said it won't have 2/3" chips (or 1/2", or 1/6", or any other size!) so we don't know yet. One week and counting!
 
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