El Director
Veteran
I second this one!
What makes a student film look like a student film?
- Thread starter Fahad
- Start date
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Let's not forget that shot with Home Depot work lights look.
Jon Starr
Veteran
It's 100% inexperience and 0% budget.
You can have all the money in the world, and none of it will make up for lack of talent- but when you have all the talent in the world and no money, you can come out with a masterpiece-
Student films suck because they're just new to the game. We're all learning, but students start off with nothing.
Story will suffer because they haven't developed their writing- inexperienced writing leads to cliche because there's not enough thought put into it- and when it's a drama story ideas seem to center around extremely negative subjects because they feel it's the only way they'll get any emotion out of the audience (i.e. suicide, drinking, anorexia, etc.)-
Lighting, Camera Angles, and everything in between will suffer because of lack of experience, and so they have useless close-ups, uninspired zollys and dutch angles, hard single lighting, overblown images, slow clunky untimed editing, etc...
Actors - well you're working with inexperienced actors, either your friends/family, or if you did auditions it's the best of 5 struggling 20 something artists you've seen. Add poorly written dialogue with inexperienced directors that probably don't know anything about acting and you've got awful performances that are either too much or too little, and never REAL-
Sound - this is a MAJOR problem with student films. Even when they have many things right, sound is always lacking. The rooms never feel full, they just feel bland and lifeless, because there's no ambient sounds. OR the footsteps and other sound that are used are just slapped in there in some attempt to build a soundscape. Sound is 50% of your visuals-
So again, it's inexperience. Some Student filmmakers learn as they get out. I've been subject to make some crappy student films myself. Just figure out why you made it horrible and move on.
The first step to becoming a great filmmaker is realizing you suck as a filmmaker-
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Luis Caffesse
Admin
I have to agree.
I think the #1 thing that makes a student film look like a student film is production design.
The other things listed in this thread definitely don't help... but production design seems to be generally completely ignored.
Agreed - though I do think budget restraints are a problem, I think inexperience keeps most students from spending the little money they might have in the right places. I know it did me... and I'm sure in some aspects it still does.
:beer:
thanks for that interesting read.
cheers!
thanks to everyone for the replies. very informative stuff here. although most of it seems like common sense, but i guess it's a learning process for everyone.
so... i compiled a list of the gist of what has been presented, and it comes down to:
and Rashdan's link: www.filmmaker.com/DUMPS
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Anomie
Well-known member
Something that I probably shouldn't tell: I've printed out this complete thread 
.
Between 1996 and 2001 I was writing, producing and directing amateur theatre. The first few where mostly nice attempts and important for me and my enthousiastic and ambitious friends (and not so much to an audience beyond friends and family). I was 27 at that time... I discovered that the plays I got to see in the university theatre all suffered from what I started calling studentplaysyndrome: the age thing.
In 2001 I made a play that got me away from most of the above. Most important step: I cast a 63 years old man as the father and a 26 years old man as the son. (It was a very concealed Oidipous story.) Both could act on stage.
The audience didn't believe I wrote it. They thought the dialogue (especially the part of the older man) was written by the older man himself.
Several people left the theatre tear eyed (and not because it sucked).
Having a (internationally/multidisciplined) experienced technique/lightingguy helped a little too (but he was more like a coach and refused to do a lot of things that he thought I needed to do/learn myself).
That was the point in my life that I wanted to do only that kind of stuff. Film/video was hinting at me but way to scary (I thought: too expensive). Result: I got so serious I never got another play produced....
So what am I trying to say? Eh... that knowing all these things is great, but trying to avoid all of them at the same time shuts the learning noob down.
Love this forum. If I had only had these kind of recources back in 1996-2001...
Jasper
.Between 1996 and 2001 I was writing, producing and directing amateur theatre. The first few where mostly nice attempts and important for me and my enthousiastic and ambitious friends (and not so much to an audience beyond friends and family). I was 27 at that time... I discovered that the plays I got to see in the university theatre all suffered from what I started calling studentplaysyndrome: the age thing.
In 2001 I made a play that got me away from most of the above. Most important step: I cast a 63 years old man as the father and a 26 years old man as the son. (It was a very concealed Oidipous story.) Both could act on stage.
The audience didn't believe I wrote it. They thought the dialogue (especially the part of the older man) was written by the older man himself.
Several people left the theatre tear eyed (and not because it sucked).
Having a (internationally/multidisciplined) experienced technique/lightingguy helped a little too (but he was more like a coach and refused to do a lot of things that he thought I needed to do/learn myself).
That was the point in my life that I wanted to do only that kind of stuff. Film/video was hinting at me but way to scary (I thought: too expensive). Result: I got so serious I never got another play produced....
So what am I trying to say? Eh... that knowing all these things is great, but trying to avoid all of them at the same time shuts the learning noob down.
Love this forum. If I had only had these kind of recources back in 1996-2001...
Jasper
Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
That's true!
Bad production design is the hardest thing, you can improvise lights and get your way around the cinematography, but with set design and wardrobe you need to either spend money or get for free.
I think production design is head on with audio in the neglect scale.
And to add the cherry on top:
- Editing with no pace whatsoever
- Crappy color correction (MB Looks presets)
- Crappy post production (badly composited muzzle flashes and the likes)
- Crappy music
Chris Light
Veteran
dialog that moves too swiftly. and awkward reaction shots. (with hard shadows from homemade lighting)
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
I say this all the time. If you've got a local thrift-store (we have Goodwll here in MO)... then size up your actors and go buy your wardrobe, unless of course they already own what you're looking for.
You can get a complete outfit at Goodwill for around $20/actor... and the best part isn't even the cost, but the wardrobe isn't spanking new.
The low-life murderer isn't nearly as scary in crunchy-new dark-blue wranglers.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Such an underrated aspect, but so important. Authenticity in wardrobe is huge. Shawneous made his epic Aetas, but what totally drew me out of it was that the guy's robe looked new. History Channel was showing some reenactment of something or other, but it didn't look real at all, because everyone's clothes looked new.
Lack of quality Art Direction is usually one massive giveaway that you're looking at a student film.
Of course, every single item on the D.U.M.P.S. list counts too.
Look, as in VISUALLY?
Composition. Even when white walls are present, composition can still defeat the dull and characterless fill of a large blank surface.
Even without lights, in darkness the flicker of a lit match or in daylight the ambient source of the sun, a competent composition looks cinematic. Move the camera up or down a foot or so and you lose it.
Without sound, you can still tell a full blown story with proper composition, as long as you understand the language that you're using to convey a reaction, an emotion, or even connecting people to objects or objects to people.
My vote? Composition.
What makes a Student Film FEEL like a student film? Lots of what's listed above, but for me?
Dialogue. I can forgive a lot of odd writing, but what I can't get over is this:
MARIA
I love how this coffee tastes.
JACK
I'm going to work Honey, don't forget to feed the
dogs. I love you.
MARIA
I love you, too! I'm going to go take
a shower.
KHOLI
(facepalms)
Subtelty obviously wasn't your major.
I love how this coffee tastes.
JACK
I'm going to work Honey, don't forget to feed the
dogs. I love you.
MARIA
I love you, too! I'm going to go take
a shower.
KHOLI
(facepalms)
Subtelty obviously wasn't your major.
I don't profess to be a good writer, decent at best, but outright uninteresting dialog, writing--unless intended for satire, parody or comedic purposes--and story is the killer of all efforts.
It's not just student films, either, and I am guilty of being on the nose in first drafts just to get the words down. It's all over the place in larger movies. WHITE OUT, man, I almost threw food at Geoff's screen while watching this movie.
The dialog was so bad!
It's not just student films, either, and I am guilty of being on the nose in first drafts just to get the words down. It's all over the place in larger movies. WHITE OUT, man, I almost threw food at Geoff's screen while watching this movie.
The dialog was so bad!
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
I'll chime in on this. In "Wages of Sin" I tried to get as many sets as possible because all the sets (friends apartements) were indeed basic white walled boxes. We managed to find a lot of greats sets and we didn't have to pay too much for them.
Indeed older actors do add that much needed aire of being a "real" movie.
-Nate
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Oh yeah, the History channel reenactments, are famous for that. I especially like the Civil War docs showing all those overweight, middle aged Confederate soldiers in new clean uniforms, and nice shoes. Yeah, that was the way it was... not.
i definitely agree with that. it's' funny too, because my younger brother is starting to get interested in filmmaking, and asked me where he should start. i told him (in a serious tone) composition! then referred him to a few resources.
as for reenactments, i had wanted to ask about what makes one look like one. and wanted to ask why a tv movie looks like one. basically, i don't want to ask what makes a film like a film (i've read a dozen articles/threads on that), but would like to figure out what makes everything else look like it does... so what remains, is what a film is.
but i figured asking about student films is a good place to start.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Flat lighting that allows shooting multiple angles at once -
anything you do to save time in production is generally a compromise somewhere.
Shooting multiple cameras you're always compromising, never getting the best from any angle... but getting a look that is 'close enough' from all angles.
Just my 2 cents.