C100: What is your job title?
- Thread starter Eric Coughlin
- Start date
Dafilman21
Carbonite Member
I go with whatever the client needs at that time lol
Jim Martin
DVXuser Sponsor
Knower of all, master of none!
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Believe it or not, there is a video company in Ohio called "Vidiots" !
puredrifting
Major Contributor
There are some very entertaining answers in this thread. I agree with many of them. Occasionally, I have camera ops and am the DP in charge of the G&L department. Obviously DP or cinematographer. More often, it is a junket or BTS shoot locally so small three to five person crew and I revert to lighting cameraman. Sometimes I fly to Africa or Europe alone and sometimes hire local crew, sometimes just one man band it to cover BTS on a feature or series. I'm not sure what I am then, "BTS guy?" "Camera Monkey?" I guess the bottom line is that we all have to put something on our reel, website and business cards and as the business has changed and blended, that becomes more and more confusing for us and for clients. FWIW, Ned's answer is the best and he probably makes more money than all of us! I envy Preditors because they are Producer Editors, makes sense. But what is a Producer Cameraperson? Camproducer? Producammer? Sometimes I am sitting in an office, on the phone to locations all over the world, casting talent, securing permits and financing, doing payroll, invoicing, hiring crews, setting up shoots with talent, studios, etc. So I do legitimately produce projects as well. Too many jobs, whatever pays the bills these days. Maybe I will dump it all and become a videographer like Ned and make more money.
gkantziper
Esteemed Member
I'm right there with ya Ned. Give me another 3-4 years to milk this FS7 and...
greenheron
Well-known member
LOL, yep.
greenheron
Well-known member
"I wonder what the interns call themselves? "
filmmakers.
filmmakers.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Right there with you Ned, have experienced similar. My little company had $1.2 million in billing in 2000 at our peak. Three staff editors, a post audio business and more work than we could handle. Here we are fifteen years later and it is pretty tough to break 20% of that and it's me and occasional hired guns for crews. Video has become a commodity and there are too many kids who live at home for free who are willing to do the work for little to nothing because they have no bills, kids or mortgages. I am all for the democratization of video, I love shooting digital, how inexpensive and good the tools have become but I have not yet figured out the secret of being able to make a decent living as a professional anymore. It's almost like being able to write, direct, produce, light and edit aren't really worth much anymore, the bar in some ways, has been lowered. But I saw a wedding video, of all things, a few weeks ago, from a wedding the friend was in. It was shot with six cameras, drone, jib arm, slider, gimbal and I am telling you, the production values were really good. I know how difficult it is to shoot weddings and receptions well and these people did a phenomenal job from what I saw. I asked my friend if she knew what the wedding video company charged and she said, "$8,000.00"!?! And the family was complaining that $8,000.00 was outrageously expensive. For my company to cover that wedding (not that we do weddings, we don't) with the same coverage, quality, editing, post (it had a great sound mix, music, sound effects) would be triple that at least. I guess that there are people who will go out with $10k worth of camera, lenses and gear for $100.00 a day because that is what a lot of people claim they can get. Maybe they can, nothing would surprise me these days.
I had a client I shot a huge amount of green screen two camera interviews last week. Two camera interviews. The same director is making a legitimate feature film for a budget of $1.6 million so he has been in post on it. The footage I shot for him, he wants to package it and sell it along with the feature as a 30 minute TV special, we supply the interviews with the author/expert who wrote the book the feature was based on, the buyer supplies their own host/talent/wraparounds. I normally charge $500.00 for a ten hour day of editing, that includes edit system, RAIDs, all of the software, plug-ins, effects and my editing skill. I'm not the best editor I know, but for stuff like this, I am fairly quick and know how to cut these sorts of pieces together nicely. I offer him the "friends and family" discount and tell him I will give him $375.00 per day since he already paid me to shoot (normal rate and he paid, it was fine). He balks, telling me that his editor on the feature offered to cut the feature for a flat rate of $2,500.00!?! I don't know why dsomeone with that kind of budget would hire an editor to cut it for pennies, I think he was BSing me to get me to give him a lower rate because the numbers don't add up. We are talking many weeks, if not months of editing necessary for a feature cut, plus prep for on-line, conforming, set up for VFX, etc. So he wanted me to cut this two camera interview into 30 minute show (from eight hours of interviews with two cameras, stills, stock footage, creating the green screen backgrounds, etc.) for less. I estimated it would take about eight to ten days of editing. So if we assume he wanted it done for $2,000.00, at ten days of editing, that would be around $20.00 per hour. Pass. I don't edit for $20.00 an hour but apparently LA is full of editors who will. I know he did spend a chunk of money on the life rights of the main character/writer of the books the film is adopted from and that he shot with a good crew with Arris so he spent some money, I have no idea about locations, talent, wardrobe, effects, stunts but it sounds like on that budget, one would allocate many times that amount for off-line editorial. Oh well, I turned him down and told him thanks for the offer but he should find someone who will do it for cheaper than I will.
Have been having conversations with the studio clients about what will happen to bonus material since DVD is dead and Bluray is almost dead. They tell us that they will still have a need for it for on-line delivery, iTunes season premiums, etc. but the budgets are shrinking fast. I received $750k to produce 6 hours of documentaries, special features from Warner Bros. for a classic title in 2005, ten years ago. Today, we have studios that want the same amount and quality of content for 10% of that. And almost all of the $75k goes for licensing, music, legal clearances, etc. there is very little profit to be made. I didn't get into production to get rich, I got into it because it is the only job that I truly love and am good at (I have had many other jobs, titles and functions, but overall, they sucked compared to production), but it would be nice to figure out how to better monetize my skill set. It used to be about not only having the skills but being able to risk buying $75k Betacams and $100k AVIDs. That is all gone, any $5k camera is capable of better than necessary quality for 98% of projects and anyone can edit on their computer but it seems like the last refuge, having the know how and skills, that is rapidly dropping in value. So how to adopt to the ever-changing landscape? The answer is obvious, offer something that has significant value and exclusivity to an audience eager to pay for it. But the details of how to do that are what is challenging.
I had a client I shot a huge amount of green screen two camera interviews last week. Two camera interviews. The same director is making a legitimate feature film for a budget of $1.6 million so he has been in post on it. The footage I shot for him, he wants to package it and sell it along with the feature as a 30 minute TV special, we supply the interviews with the author/expert who wrote the book the feature was based on, the buyer supplies their own host/talent/wraparounds. I normally charge $500.00 for a ten hour day of editing, that includes edit system, RAIDs, all of the software, plug-ins, effects and my editing skill. I'm not the best editor I know, but for stuff like this, I am fairly quick and know how to cut these sorts of pieces together nicely. I offer him the "friends and family" discount and tell him I will give him $375.00 per day since he already paid me to shoot (normal rate and he paid, it was fine). He balks, telling me that his editor on the feature offered to cut the feature for a flat rate of $2,500.00!?! I don't know why dsomeone with that kind of budget would hire an editor to cut it for pennies, I think he was BSing me to get me to give him a lower rate because the numbers don't add up. We are talking many weeks, if not months of editing necessary for a feature cut, plus prep for on-line, conforming, set up for VFX, etc. So he wanted me to cut this two camera interview into 30 minute show (from eight hours of interviews with two cameras, stills, stock footage, creating the green screen backgrounds, etc.) for less. I estimated it would take about eight to ten days of editing. So if we assume he wanted it done for $2,000.00, at ten days of editing, that would be around $20.00 per hour. Pass. I don't edit for $20.00 an hour but apparently LA is full of editors who will. I know he did spend a chunk of money on the life rights of the main character/writer of the books the film is adopted from and that he shot with a good crew with Arris so he spent some money, I have no idea about locations, talent, wardrobe, effects, stunts but it sounds like on that budget, one would allocate many times that amount for off-line editorial. Oh well, I turned him down and told him thanks for the offer but he should find someone who will do it for cheaper than I will.
Have been having conversations with the studio clients about what will happen to bonus material since DVD is dead and Bluray is almost dead. They tell us that they will still have a need for it for on-line delivery, iTunes season premiums, etc. but the budgets are shrinking fast. I received $750k to produce 6 hours of documentaries, special features from Warner Bros. for a classic title in 2005, ten years ago. Today, we have studios that want the same amount and quality of content for 10% of that. And almost all of the $75k goes for licensing, music, legal clearances, etc. there is very little profit to be made. I didn't get into production to get rich, I got into it because it is the only job that I truly love and am good at (I have had many other jobs, titles and functions, but overall, they sucked compared to production), but it would be nice to figure out how to better monetize my skill set. It used to be about not only having the skills but being able to risk buying $75k Betacams and $100k AVIDs. That is all gone, any $5k camera is capable of better than necessary quality for 98% of projects and anyone can edit on their computer but it seems like the last refuge, having the know how and skills, that is rapidly dropping in value. So how to adopt to the ever-changing landscape? The answer is obvious, offer something that has significant value and exclusivity to an audience eager to pay for it. But the details of how to do that are what is challenging.
Last edited:
maranfilms
Veteran
Rectal beatboxer!
nedcam
Well-known member
Mystery Solved. I just got back from a half day shoot in NYC for an extreme luxury fashion web retailer. Office swank and they had several models and still shooters working an assembly line, so they are used to still guys rather than us vidiots. This was for perhaps the US's largest advertising agency and when my client introduced me to the interview subject she said, "Ned Miller is our videographer". I guess if a big agency exec calls me that then that's what I is? I do not do spots, rather, little documentaries. Perhaps spots they'd use the term DP?
So when I was within ear shot but not visible I heard them refer to me three times as "the video guy". As in:
"Where's the video guy, in the bathroom?"
"Arrange an Uber for the video guy to go to JFK at 4"
"The video guy needs them to quiet down next door"
So that's what we are: The Video Guy. I must confess if I need to ask for an audio feed in an auditorium, concert hall, theatre, etc. I will approach the guys at the soundboard and say "Hi, I'm the video guy." Never thought about it till this thread but I have used that a lot.
As stated in my earlier post I have used as my default: Videographer. I also do litigation support (no deps) videos and the entire legal biz calls us videographers. They'd scratch their heads with any other handle.
So when I was within ear shot but not visible I heard them refer to me three times as "the video guy". As in:
"Where's the video guy, in the bathroom?"
"Arrange an Uber for the video guy to go to JFK at 4"
"The video guy needs them to quiet down next door"
So that's what we are: The Video Guy. I must confess if I need to ask for an audio feed in an auditorium, concert hall, theatre, etc. I will approach the guys at the soundboard and say "Hi, I'm the video guy." Never thought about it till this thread but I have used that a lot.
As stated in my earlier post I have used as my default: Videographer. I also do litigation support (no deps) videos and the entire legal biz calls us videographers. They'd scratch their heads with any other handle.
Last edited:
Dafilman21
Carbonite Member
Ned is spot on I here video guy all the time and i show up to a show that I am filming I say hi I am the video guy give me a clean audio feed lol.
I tend to agree with Ned and PD. I work a bit lower down the food chain than those guys making videos for small to medium Business's and organisations (Direct clients). A realisation I have made is it's not what I call myself that matters, It's what the Market I’m in is looking for - And that is a videographer. By far, that’s the search term (Google Adwords) that actually gets me most of my work -from event filming to small 2 hour shoot, 4 hour edit jobs to $30k Training/Educational videos.
Again, this mostly just relates to the Market I’m in and as much as we moan and complain about the young DSLR guys disrupting our business model, well get over it (as my daughter would say) Change adapt or fade away…
Again, this mostly just relates to the Market I’m in and as much as we moan and complain about the young DSLR guys disrupting our business model, well get over it (as my daughter would say) Change adapt or fade away…
QuickHitRecord
Veteran
I've been seeing "Videologist" around lately. Not sure what to make of that one.
Personally, I hate "Videographer". In my mind, this is the (possibly unskilled) person who sets up a camcorder at the back of a room to capture people speaking at a podium. I think that most of the people on this board do a lot more than that. But these days, that title seems like a necessary evil to get work.
My title at my old job was "Producer". I never thought that it was completely accurate since on top of producing, I would do most if not all of the production work as well. Lately, I've been using "Video Professional" and "Video Production Specialist" more and more, just trying to get away from "Videographer".
Personally, I hate "Videographer". In my mind, this is the (possibly unskilled) person who sets up a camcorder at the back of a room to capture people speaking at a podium. I think that most of the people on this board do a lot more than that. But these days, that title seems like a necessary evil to get work.
My title at my old job was "Producer". I never thought that it was completely accurate since on top of producing, I would do most if not all of the production work as well. Lately, I've been using "Video Professional" and "Video Production Specialist" more and more, just trying to get away from "Videographer".
combatentropy
Veteran
You are what your average customer calls you. Anything else sounds pretentious.
Weddings? You are a videographer.
Work on a crew? You are a director, gaffer, DP, or whatever you're doing. Teleprompter operator.
If you own your own business, do all the things, and do a wide variety of work, I suppose you are a video producer.
Etc.
Weddings? You are a videographer.
Work on a crew? You are a director, gaffer, DP, or whatever you're doing. Teleprompter operator.
If you own your own business, do all the things, and do a wide variety of work, I suppose you are a video producer.
Etc.