What is the widest lens for the GH1?
- Thread starter Gene Sung
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commanderspike
Carbonite Member
Tokina 11-16 is great. Canon 10-22 EFS also.
But neither beat the Panasonic 7-14 for sheer wideness, small size, Af, and according to what I've read so far - picture quality. Although they're all pretty close in terms of that, the Lumix lens is simply suberb. One of the best lenses Panasonic have ever made.
But neither beat the Panasonic 7-14 for sheer wideness, small size, Af, and according to what I've read so far - picture quality. Although they're all pretty close in terms of that, the Lumix lens is simply suberb. One of the best lenses Panasonic have ever made.
ydgmdlu
Veteran
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Please answer me this question: Do you come from a still photography background in which you are used to the full-frame field of view? If not, then the "2x crop factor" has absolutely no meaning for you. All that you need to know is that anything around 25mm is "normal FOV," ~16mm is wide, ~11 is super-wide, and ~7mm is ultra-wide. That goes for all lenses. Memorize that, and just plain forget about crop factor.
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There is no version for Micro Four-Thirds. You'd need an adapter. You could always do your own research...
ALL LENSES of a given focal length provide the same field of view. The 11-16mm lens will be slightly less wide than the 7-14mm.
Please answer me this question: Do you come from a still photography background in which you are used to the full-frame field of view? If not, then the "2x crop factor" has absolutely no meaning for you. All that you need to know is that anything around 25mm is "normal FOV," ~16mm is wide, ~11 is super-wide, and ~7mm is ultra-wide. That goes for all lenses. Memorize that, and just plain forget about crop factor.
J Davis
Veteran
Commander is right about it being the widest and if you stay with the GH1, Pana, Olympus and 4/3rds cameras it will serve you well. It's f4 tho. No better than kit lens in for exposure in low light. Biggest drawback is if you move on to another system like Canon 7D, or Nikon whatever or something else in the future the pana 7-14 lens will not work as it is designed for the ultra short flange distance. Nikon mount lenses have the broadest spectrum of cameras that they will work on. You can put a nikon lens on a canon, not the other way round.
Not trying to start a debate but always plan ahead. I bought the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 Nikon mount, used it on my GH1, now its on my 7D. It will sit on a RED one day I hope.
4/3rds lenses leave you boxed in a corner, you're stuck on the 4/3rds system.
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xmephestox
Carbonite Member
tokina you gain a lot more light back too, yes u lose a little bit in focal length, but the 7-14 is insanely slow. you'll be shooting at such high iso's that you probably won't be happy with the image. the benefits from the tokina will out way the lumix lens in a lot of ways, but with the lumix, out doors, nice crisp iso stopped down, it's gonna look great. adapter is only 100 bux if u opt for tokina
Barry_Green
Moderator
Forget crop factor, and just look at the millimeters. If you find something shorter than 7mm (no matter what mount it is), it'll be wider than the 7-14mm. If the number is bigger than 8mm, then it won't be wider. Even the fisheye 8mm Peleng will be more telephoto than the 7mm wide end of that 7mm-14mm zoom.
themartist
Active member
Could you please go into more detail in order to "dummy proof" this for those of us (me included) who are a bit confused by the effect a sensor has on the FOV. I was under the impression a 35mm lens on a GH1 is equal to about 50mm on a full sensor camera. I do not come from a photographic background, so for myself and others who may not know these details, a tight explanation would be GREATLY appreciated.
ydgmdlu
Veteran
I'm currently working on a crop factor FAQ...
If you do not have a background in 35mm still photography, or in full-frame photography, then forget about "equivalent focal lengths," crop factor, and the like. Those things are meaninglss to you. Why do you think that they would have any meaning? "Crop factors" only mean anything when you have something in mind as your frame of reference. If you're not already used to full-frame photography, then you have no frame of reference. Any 35mm lens on Four-Thirds gives a field of view equivalent to 70mm on full frame. But what does that mean to you? Please tell me what you think "70mm on full frame" means. If you cannot give me the answer, then your confusion should be cleared right then and there.
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There's surprisingly big difference between 7mm and 11mm focal lengths, and not much of a difference between 11mm and 14mm. And there's a big difference between having auto-focus auto-aperture (on the Panasonic) and not having it (on the Tokina). Plus the Tokina at 570g weighs almost twice as much as the Panasonic at 300g. Yes the Tokina is less expensive and faster (f2.8 vs. f4.0). But f2.8 isn't really that fast either, either way you're going to struggle in low noise situations.
What are you going to use the lens for?
What are you going to use the lens for?
Here's the same scene shot with the Panasonic 7-14mm on the GH1 with the camera in the exact same position.
First at 14mm
Then at 11mm
and finally at 7mm
So you can see the visual difference between 7mm and 11mm is much greater than the difference between 11mm and 14mm.
First at 14mm
Then at 11mm
and finally at 7mm
So you can see the visual difference between 7mm and 11mm is much greater than the difference between 11mm and 14mm.
themartist
Active member
Well let me start by not giving you the wrong impression of my level of stupidity. A canon fD 70mm on a full frame sensor such as a Mark 11 will be exactly that. The smaller sensor of the GH1 will make the FOV appear to be more like 100mm. Why 100mm? Not sure mathematically, but thats how it is. Now how is it that you now say 50mm is 50mm etc... when we know that all is not equal. For example a zenitar 16mm fisheye will not have the same effect on the GH1 as it would on a full sensor camera.
ydgmdlu
Veteran
That's almost a meaningless statement. Let me rephrase my question: Do you know what 70mm on the 5D Mark II looks like? What do you mean when you say, "70mm on full frame will be exactly 70mm"? It sounds like a tautology to me.
The GH1 has a crop factor of 2x, so the full-frame equivalent FOV would be 140mm, not 100mm.
A 50mm lens on the GH1 will provide exactly the same FOV as any other 50mm lens on the GH1. That's what we mean when we say that "50mm is 50mm." On a larger format, the 50mm focal length provides a wider FOV. If you're not working with two different image formats and trying to compare them, then the issue of crop factors is absolutely meaningless.
Focal lengths only have practical meaning when given an image format. A "50mm lens" or a "70mm lens" doesn't mean a whole lot unless you specify on which image format you plan to use the lens. A 50mm lens doesn't "become another focal length" on a different format. It just takes on a different meaning in terms of field of view.
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themartist
Active member
Is it necessary to be constantly rhetorical? Whether you intend it or not, it ends up being very condescending and patronizing. Let me reiterate... I'm not a dummy. Forget that I used that term.
When in post (after effects) there is a need to choose cameras, edit focal depths and manipulate scenes according to precise camera FOV mathematics. When buying FD lenses... knowing the difference a 15mm "fisheye" lens will have DOES matter. To not have a frame of reference is stupid.
Perhaps the comparison to a 35mm film camera is the difference? Many have said there is only a 30% difference in FOV...Barry, need your filling in the pieces here.
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ydgmdlu
Veteran
I wasn't trying to be rhetorical. I was asking honest questions. The conversation from that point would depend on how you answered those questions. I'm sorry if they came across as rhetorical, condescending, and patronizing instead.
You never mentioned that; you only said that you don't have a background in photography. So I answered accordingly. Also, my answers were aimed at a broader audience, not just you specifically. (After all, you did previously ask that the issue be clarified for other people as well...) Other people who aren't doing what you're doing in post-production won't use my information in the same way.
OK, so what is your frame of reference, and do you always visualize or work using that frame of reference?
No, on the GH1, it always doubles. That's because the crop factor is 2.0x (actually, many say that it's really 1.9x). On the 7D, the crop factor is 1.6x. On Nikon cameras like the D90, D300, and D5000, the crop factor is 1.5x. Crop factors are different for different image formats. I've been on the GH1 forum talking about crop factors since the GH1 forum was created back in April.
Crop factor depends on the difference between the image format sizes that are being compared. For a more detailed explanation on how crop factor works, please read the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor
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commanderspike
Carbonite Member
Take a photo with a 5D Mark II. Take the lens off and attach it to the GH1.
Take a photo with the GH1.
Crop a 50% by 50% box out of the middle of the 5D Mark II image.
That crop will match the GH1's full image with the same lens.
Another way to think of it, is to extend the GH1's kit lens zoom to 50mm - that shows you what a 50mm lens will look like on the GH1. So in that sense it's easy to imagine the FOV you're getting from any future FD lens purchases. Aperture only affects depth of field.
Take a photo with the GH1.
Crop a 50% by 50% box out of the middle of the 5D Mark II image.
That crop will match the GH1's full image with the same lens.
Another way to think of it, is to extend the GH1's kit lens zoom to 50mm - that shows you what a 50mm lens will look like on the GH1. So in that sense it's easy to imagine the FOV you're getting from any future FD lens purchases. Aperture only affects depth of field.
DanDOF
Well-known member
I like to use this: Tamron Focal Length Comparison... or Angle of View Calculator... and then put my arms out in front of my face and start memorizing various angles between them. This might sound boring to some, but its a cure against the vague and slightly condescending semantic arguments common to this forum. My advice:
- You DO have a point of reference: your human eyes. The human eye has an angle of view of around 46.47 degrees. THAT is your point of reference.
- Don't ignore the GH1 2x crop factor, but first start asking yourself what angle of view you want (ultra-wide, wide, normal, telephoto?)
To get the same aesthetic look of your human eyes (a normal 46.47 degrees angle of view) use a:
- 25mm lens on GH1 sensor.
- 50mm lens on 5DMark2 sensor.
- 7mm lens on GH1
- 14mm lens on 52Mark2
1. Note the 2x crop factor of the GH1 sensor size. You must divide by 2 when figuring out what focal length you need to buy to match the desired angle of view shown on the 35mm full frame calculators linked above. 35mm full frame sensor does not refer to the focal length, but just the width of the film used in a film photography camera. Just focus on the angle of view you want, and then look into what focal length you need (1x for full frame, 1.5x for Nikon APS-C (i.e. DX), 1.6x for Canon APS-C (i.e. DX), or 2x for GH1 four-thirds sensors).
2. Note all degrees are in diagonal view.
3. Also note the following:
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Richard Sutcliffe
Well-known member
And what about aperture control, there doesn't appear to be aperture ring on the tokina?