What HD-format for playback BluRay?

C

cici

Well-known member
Until now, I thought that compressing DVCPRO-HD via MPEG4 would result in footage, that can be viewed on TV with a BluRay player.

Now I have been told, that this kind of MPEG4 could NOT be viewed with a BluRay player, because unlike MPEG2, MPEG4 was not a format and so the device to show the footage will need to recognize the DVCPRO-HD even after MPEG4-compression.

:huh:

I'm very confused now....

For DVD it's simple:
- you export in WMV-HD and any WMV-HD-compatible DVD-player (as the KISS-player e.g.) can display your footage from the HVX, still in HD. So your customer with a HD-ready TV and a WMV-HD DVD-player is satispied....

But what about the customer, that wants to watch the footage with his brandnew BD-player?

What format do we need to export to get some good HD-footage that can be viewed with any BD-player?

So many possibilities to watch the footage in HD for us (via camera, P2-viewer/PC, P2-recorder, HD-NLE, ...) but so few for the non-broadcasting customer... or am I wrong?

So, WHAT would be the best codification + compression workflow for exporting DVCPRO-HD footage on a BluRay Disc - NOT for storage, but for playback?

Thanks for help and for disconfusion! - Cici
 
cici, whoever told you that is a complete idiot. Once video is converted from one codec to another, it is completely independent of the original codec.
 
THoff said:
cici, whoever told you that is a complete idiot. Once video is converted from one codec to another, it is completely independent of the original codec.
Click to expand...

The (vice-) P2-specialist of Panasonic Switzerland told me this... ;)

He told me that after the compression it would just be DVCPRO-HD-MPEG4, but STILL DVCPRO-HD.... and he added that a video compressed with MPEG2 would be also converted, because MPEG2 was a compression codec AND a format, but MPEG4 was ONLY a compression codec, but NO format.

He also said, that DVCPRO-HD needed to become MPEG2 to be displayed with a DVD-player and there was no other possibility which is wrong too:

1) I doubt that DVCPRO-HD after MPEG2 compression still has HD-resolution
2) WMV-HD is far better and probably the ONLY way so far for a playback-DVD
 
Once it's MPEG4 video, it is MPEG4 video, not DVCProHD video.

He's correct about DVCProHD having to be converted to MPEG2 before you can put it on a DVD for playback in standalone devices. And no, it won't be HD resolution, it will be 720x480 or 720x576 maximum for NTSC and PAL, respectively.

WMV-HD is supported by very few standalone DVD players. A more common (but not by far) HD format that can be used with standalone DVD players is DivX HD.

BluRay players will be able to play back three different video formats: MPEG2, H.264, and VC1 (WMV 9).
 
carlone said:
http://pcworld.com/article/id,117681-page,1/article.html

MPEG 4 will be an option for playback.
Click to expand...

I always considered this beeing true... and what that so called P2-specialist told me makes no sense in the following way too:

For many months now we know that HD is beeing broadcast (in Europe) as MPEG4 / H.264. And we also know that BluRay players or ANY upcoming HD-device will be "MPEG-4 compatible". So if that Panasonic guy was right, then WHAT MPEG4 do they mean when talking about HD-broadcast or BluRay ?

I'm happy if people here can take me back to the point when I thought to "know":

Whenever I compress native DVCPRO-HD with MPEG4/H.264, I will get some footage, that can DIRECTLY be viewed with any BluRay-player or EVEN with the (hopefully one day) coming Playstation 3.

Especially with the Playstation we will have a big bunch of potential new HD-customers who want their marriage or whatever in HD-quality. I don't want to hand them out a DVD if they can view a BD (with much less compression or much more capacity).

Best in this thread would be a confirmation of somebody who already has produced successfully a BD with converted/compressed DVCPRO-HD footage on it and was able to view it on a HD-ready screen via BD-player.
 
@THoff:

A lot of helpful info! Thanks!

For WMV-HD we have here in Switzerland this player (look at the prices also, in Swiss Francs - not that much, not that few...): LINK

For DivX-HD I have no experience at all, but time will show.....

My questions here are because I'm planning for the correct NLE and as a PC user, I tend to buy Canopus Broadcast. So I need to know whether all needed codecs for DVD or BD export are supported because most of my customers are NOT broadcasting.
 
Edius 4 Broadcast can create WMV HD, H.264, DivX HD AVI, and high-definition MPEG2 Transport Stream files. However, there is more to it than creating these files, you will still need an authoring application for either DVD HD or Blu-Ray disks.

One option would be Ulead DVD MovieFactory® 5 Plus, it currently supports Blu-Ray and will eventually support DVD HD as well.
 
THoff said:
However, there is more to it than creating these files, you will still need an authoring application for either DVD HD or Blu-Ray disks.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was a little concerned about that as I was using Liquid Edition so far and didn't need no after-effects nor DVD-authoring nor anything besides that great package LE 5.5 delivers....

But the authoring is the smallest problem! I'm happy that everything seems to get now in order! :) Last but not least I'll need also a BD-burner and I'll get that one as late as possible of course as it's still very expensive and not enough diff. brands on the market now.

It's all because we are so very early in this new TV-standard and many devices are still first generation, prototypes, etc. and everybody's still new in this HD-world... But we decided proudly to join these early days and the footage thanks us.
 
cici said:
He told me that after the compression it would just be DVCPRO-HD-MPEG4, but STILL DVCPRO-HD.... and he added that a video compressed with MPEG2 would be also converted, because MPEG2 was a compression codec AND a format, but MPEG4 was ONLY a compression codec, but NO format.
Click to expand...

This is the most rediculous statement I've ever read! MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are only slight variations of the same codec. Format vs. Codec? Give me a break! This is about the most ignorant and untrue statement I've ever read.

MPEG-4 is MPEG-4. There's no such thing as "DVCPRO-HD-MPEG-4"!

ROTFL!!!!!!
 
and now I just can't believe that man is supposed to be the vice P2-expert from Panasonic Switzerland.... I'm used to talk to the P2-expert mister O.B. from Panasonic Switzerland and HE's really brilliant! He knows details about the different NLE, he knows all the numbers, how many HVX Switzerland is selling to whom and what enterprise is planning to integrate P2 etc. so any time I talk with him about the HVX or P2 etc. it's mostly HIM talking and he won't stop chatting about interesting facts that none of us has read in this forum .

Now last week he was absent and I "had to" talk to his assistant... The whole discussion about DVD / BD, codecs and so on was really hard, as I always had the impression that man talks more than he knows and either doesn't dare to confess or just thinks to be right.

He managed to turn upside down all my (little) knowledge about codecs and how they are used for storing or playback in the case of the P2-system. There are many possibilities and many restrictions and we are used in this forum to these restrictions (as P2-support with NLEs) and so it's easy to us to believe if somebody tells us "that won't be as easy as you might think!" ...

That's what happened with MPEG4 and I'm so glad that you guys lead me back to what I hoped to be true: MPEG4 / H.264 is definitely a codec to work with that will give us some widely supported playback footage. I think that MPEG4 will have a great future for HVX users as once, BD is being found in more and more houses (especially with PS3) , it will allow us to produce HD-footage for the consumer that will exceed any video quality consumers are used to to date.
 
That's what this forum is for! Anytime you need help clearing things up!

When it comes to High Deffinition DVD formats, at this point, I don't give a rat's a** who's format it is! Just somebody start making them for a resonable price!

For crying out loud, we are building a space station! We can hit a flea on the side of a barn with a 500 pound bomb from the other side of the planet! We have decoded the entire library of the human genetic make up! We're driving dune buggies on MARS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

WHY can't we get a reasonable, common sense, HD DVD format agreed upon and out to the mass public? Is it really THAT much more difficult than mapping the ENTIRE human genetic make up?

Well, from what I've been reading over the past couple of years, looks like it is much more complex than designing an aircraft that can go into space, land on the earth, and be reused over and over and over, when it had never been done. I think I now realize that HD DVD creation is very, very, very complex science beyond any human comprehinsion...

Yeah, right...
 
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