what do u think abut this: Dedolight Light Stream?

So, a 1200 watt HMI with a parabolic reflector for creating more naturalistic fall off for sunlight. Or a replacement for a joleko. I would love to have a couple, but I am guessing these are not in the owner/operator price bracket.

Those advanced bounces also don't look cheap. I'm not quite sure why Dedolight is trying to sell them as some convoluted way to lgiht a scene with only one light using just a series of bounces. I can't imagine anybody actually wanting to put up with the frustration of lighting that way.
 
cpreston said:
So, a 1200 watt HMI with a parabolic reflector for creating more naturalistic fall off for sunlight. Or a replacement for a joleko. I would love to have a couple, but I am guessing these are not in the owner/operator price bracket.

Those advanced bounces also don't look cheap. I'm not quite sure why Dedolight is trying to sell them as some convoluted way to lgiht a scene with only one light using just a series of bounces. I can't imagine anybody actually wanting to put up with the frustration of lighting that way.
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Yeah, i mean, since when in reality is there one big source that is reflected? When are we going to see that kind of light in the real world?

Also, i think heavy hot lights on set, is better than reflectors. And if you use reflectors, you can NEVER use additional lights. Never. Even if you think it makes sense. You can only use just reflector system or multiple lights, but you can’t use both. Never.

Also, everyone loves LED now. Using any other type of lighting is just silly. Even if the other lights have the “quality of light”. Just not allowed to work with hmi, tungsten, flourescent, reflectors, and led. No one has ever mixed systems before.

Clearly, Dedo has no idea what they are doing. Madness, i tell you. Madness.
 
James0b57 said:
Yeah, i mean, since when in reality is there one big source that is reflected? When are we going to see that kind of light in the real world?

Also, i think heavy hot lights on set, is better than reflectors. And if you use reflectors, you can NEVER use additional lights. Never. Even if you think it makes sense. You can only use just reflector system or multiple lights, but you can’t use both. Never.

Also, everyone loves LED now. Using any other type of lighting is just silly. Even if the other lights have the “quality of light”. Just not allowed to work with hmi, tungsten, flourescent, reflectors, and led. No one has ever mixed systems before.

Clearly, Dedo has no idea what they are doing. Madness, i tell you. Madness.
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Wow. I was simply pointing out that Dedolight might be better off pointing out the general advantages of their reflectors rather than creating these elaborate set-ups and videos showing how you could create a grid of reflectors to create a multi-point lighting source. Because, yes, nobody is going to take the time to set-up five or so reflectors in an elaborate scheme in which each reflector's position affects the rest of the reflectors output and light direction. I mean, it is cute in that Rube Goldberg contraption sort of way. It reminded me of that scene in "Legend" where they are trying to get sunlight down into the castle to kill the demon. But it also made me think that the marketing team was more interested in fun thought experiments than in how lighting works on set. But, snark away. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
 
I remember years ago seeing the price for the parabolic reflector and that was the end of that idea..... something like $24K
 
Quote Originally Posted by James0b57
Yeah, i mean, since when in reality is there one big source that is reflected? When are we going to see that kind of light in the real world?

Also, i think heavy hot lights on set, is better than reflectors. And if you use reflectors, you can NEVER use additional lights. Never. Even if you think it makes sense. You can only use just reflector system or multiple lights, but you can’t use both. Never.

Also, everyone loves LED now. Using any other type of lighting is just silly. Even if the other lights have the “quality of light”. Just not allowed to work with hmi, tungsten, flourescent, reflectors, and led. No one has ever mixed systems before.

Clearly, Dedo has no idea what they are doing. Madness, i tell you. Madness.
Click to expand...

cpreston said:
Wow. I was simply pointing out that Dedolight might be better off pointing out the general advantages of their reflectors rather than creating these elaborate set-ups and videos showing how you could create a grid of reflectors to create a multi-point lighting source. Because, yes, nobody is going to take the time to set-up five or so reflectors in an elaborate scheme in which each reflector's position affects the rest of the reflectors output and light direction. I mean, it is cute in that Rube Goldberg contraption sort of way. It reminded me of that scene in "Legend" where they are trying to get sunlight down into the castle to kill the demon. But it also made me think that the marketing team was more interested in fun thought experiments than in how lighting works on set. But, snark away. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
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In a way you are both a little bit wrong.
This is Christian Berger's way of working, which has been used successfully on quite a few sets including The White Ribbon for Haneke.
He paired with Dedolight a long time ago as they searched for ways to perfect it on a smaller scale.
I have the equivalent system from an ex-partner of theirs called KFlect - whose system of attaching reflectors with magnets is quicker and more efficient.
I love working with the system, because it is more like being a painter than applying silly formulaic ratios, as on many productions.
What is nice is that you can simply move a reflector in small ways and watch the evolution of your light towards things you could not have necessarily imagined otherwise.
The curious thing is that this way of working is actually quite old. The gaffer for Beauty and the Beast from Cocteau (and at the end of his career for Wings of Desire from Wim Wenders), often worked in this way. The result is quite stunning and the set is quite calm, as you don't have huge lights with fans, etc.

The one drawback of the system however, is that boom operators can actually interfere with the light sources as they are bouncing around one's head and might not even be aware of it.

Christian Berger also liked to put many of these parabolic dishes outside windows in a similar way we poke through with 5K's, however, because of the way parallel beams work they don't fall off in the same way within an interior. These kind of beams travel great distances without measurably diminishing. Thus you could actually have virtually the same f-stop close to a window as deep within a room with this kind of light source. As you can imagine this is very practical in many kinds of situations like shooting a scene in a ballroom for instance. It also means that you can create catch lights, rim lights, etc. quite easily with a few reflectors (which weigh nothing) on the walls. Rigging those effects would take much more time and can be impossible in historic locations.

Honestly, if you haven't tried it, it is worth exploring.

Lastly, I have been planning on using it in Africa, as power can be a problem and working with reflectors from a single small light source, or simply just the sun itself, saves huge on setups and in terms of logistics. Essentially the reflectors replace power hungry sources. Still waiting for a LED equivalent, but Aputure is getting there...
 
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yoclay said:
In a way you are both a little bit wrong.
This is Christian Berger's way of working, which has been used successfully on quite a few sets including The White Ribbon for Haneke.
He paired with Dedolight a long time ago as they searched for ways to perfect it on a smaller scale.
I have the equivalent system from an ex-partner of theirs called KFlect - whose system of attaching reflectors with magnets is quicker and more efficient.
I love working with the system, because it is more like being a painter than applying silly formulaic ratios, as on many productions.
What is nice is that you can simply move a reflector in small ways and watch the evolution of your light towards things you could not have necessarily imagined otherwise.
The curious thing is that this way of working is actually quite old. The gaffer for Beauty and the Beast from Cocteau (and at the end of his career for Wings of Desire from Wim Wenders), often worked in this way. The result is quite stunning and the set is quite calm, as you don't have huge lights with fans, etc.

The one drawback of the system however, is that boom operators can actually interfere with the light sources as they are bouncing around one's head and might not even be aware of it.

Christian Berger also liked to put many of these parabolic dishes outside windows in a similar way we poke through with 5K's, however, because of the way parallel beams work they don't fall off in the same way within an interior. These kind of beams travel great distances without measurably diminishing. Thus you could actually have virtually the same f-stop close to a window as deep within a room with this kind of light source. As you can imagine this is very practical in many kinds of situations like shooting a scene in a ballroom for instance. It also means that you can create catch lights, rim lights, etc. quite easily with a few reflectors (which weigh nothing) on the walls. Rigging those effects would take much more time and can be impossible in historic locations.

Honestly, if you haven't tried it, it is worth exploring.

Lastly, I have been planning on using it in Africa, as power can be a problem and working with reflectors from a single small light source, or simply just the sun itself, saves huge on setups and in terms of logistics. Essentially the reflectors replace power hungry sources. Still waiting for a LED equivalent, but Aputure is getting there...
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+1 ^^^this.
 
cpreston said:
I was simply pointing out that Dedolight might be better off pointing out the general advantages of their reflectors rather than creating these elaborate set-ups and videos showing how you could create a grid of reflectors to create a multi-point lighting source. Because, yes, nobody is going to take the time to set-up five or so reflectors in an elaborate scheme in which each reflector's position affects the rest of the reflectors output and light direction. I mean, it is cute in that Rube Goldberg contraption sort of way. It reminded me of that scene in "Legend" where they are trying to get sunlight down into the castle to kill the demon. But it also made me think that the marketing team was more interested in fun thought experiments than in how lighting works on set. But, snark away.
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love all of this.

cpreston said:
Wow... ...Whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
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nah, if you were offended, then i didn’t do it right. I’ll go sit in the bathtub with a toaster.
 
Toilet.
I could (and have) use a single refletor to create a backlight in a small room because sometimes it is easier to mount a reflector (being of low mass) on the ceiling of a small room with no space for not seeing the stands.. and yes Id fire a dedo into that reflector. Multple reflectos in the path? Nah - too Rube.

IN a big exhibition space. Waste of time :)
 
These were developed alongside/as the Cine-Reflect system, but at some point the two parties branched away from each other. I think the 1200w Dedo fixture is incredible, and I can see a TONNE of ways that I would put them to use. But they weigh a tonne, and cost a small fortune, so it's hard to place the situation in which you'd ever get to use them (unless a local gaffer took a chance on the system).

What really confuses me, is why no one talks about the standard Dedo 1200w HMI system - it's got the same amazing optics and focus range as the rest of the dual-optic Dedos. With 1200w of output (which you can focus down to a 5 degree spot!), a compact form factor - and the ability to use Dedo's projection optics - for incredibly precise, very high output Leko-style projection.

The price isn't that outrageous for it either, it's M18-ish.
 
Grug said:
These were developed alongside/as the Cine-Reflect system, but at some point the two parties branched away from each other. I think the 1200w Dedo fixture is incredible, and I can see a TONNE of ways that I would put them to use. But they weigh a tonne, and cost a small fortune, so it's hard to place the situation in which you'd ever get to use them (unless a local gaffer took a chance on the system).

What really confuses me, is why no one talks about the standard Dedo 1200w HMI system - it's got the same amazing optics and focus range as the rest of the dual-optic Dedos. With 1200w of output (which you can focus down to a 5 degree spot!), a compact form factor - and the ability to use Dedo's projection optics - for incredibly precise, very high output Leko-style projection.

The price isn't that outrageous for it either, it's M18-ish.
Click to expand...

Dedo also has the cleanest cutting LED.

Dedo does a good job.
 
Grug said:
These were developed alongside/as the Cine-Reflect system, but at some point the two parties branched away from each other. I think the 1200w Dedo fixture is incredible, and I can see a TONNE of ways that I would put them to use. But they weigh a tonne, and cost a small fortune, so it's hard to place the situation in which you'd ever get to use them (unless a local gaffer took a chance on the system).

What really confuses me, is why no one talks about the standard Dedo 1200w HMI system - it's got the same amazing optics and focus range as the rest of the dual-optic Dedos. With 1200w of output (which you can focus down to a 5 degree spot!), a compact form factor - and the ability to use Dedo's projection optics - for incredibly precise, very high output Leko-style projection.

The price isn't that outrageous for it either, it's M18-ish.
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What people might not understand here is that the parabolic bowl is also designed to be the source for several separate mirror setups at the same time because it is a bigger source. In another words several different 1st level mirrors can "feed" off of it. The best way to understand this is to imagine for instance you wanted to color your light sources differently. This means I could put different colored gels on the surface of the parabolic (this is why it has a plastic front) and using separate 1st level mirrors have different color light sources without them bleeding into each other. Thus I can have a Tungsten backlight and a cyan front light, as well as a blue or red wash on a wall, all from the same single light source. The dedolights only have a single small sized source, so I could only use one set of mirrors with it as opposed to several sets. Does this make sense to people ? Not sure I explained it weill....
 
Grug said:
What really confuses me, is why no one talks about the standard Dedo 1200w HMI system - it's got the same amazing optics and focus range as the rest of the dual-optic Dedos. With 1200w of output (which you can focus down to a 5 degree spot!), a compact form factor - and the ability to use Dedo's projection optics - for incredibly precise, very high output Leko-style projection.

The price isn't that outrageous for it either, it's M18-ish.
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I've thought about the Dedo HMI as well before. From what I recall Dedo's optics are much more efficient than standard Fresnels, so that would theoretically bring closer the brightness difference between their 1.2K HMI and Arri's 1.8K. But the M18 is a par, so it has no lens to go through, so more difficult to control but brighter output I would imagine, unless the Dedo optics are increasing the output at the same beam angle.

I guess my question is, why are you confused about the lack of enthusiasm for the Dedo 1200 HMI considering you own an M18 and not a 1.2K Dedo HMI? I found a topic on Reduser where you had the Dedo 1.2K HMI on your future lighting list, but apparently you went with the M18 instead. I guess just because it's more in demand as a rental? I personally freelance primarily as a DP and not a gaffer and don't rent my equipment out without myself on the shoot, which gives me the freedom to choose my lights more based on my needs and less based on what is popular as a rental item. But I imagine the M18 still has various advantages other than name recognition.

The Arri Orbiter seems to be capable of cutting a nice beam and has all the benefits of LED for a similar price as the Dedo 1200 HMI. I believe LED is more efficient than HMI, so a 400w Orbiter may be equivalent to a 600-800w HMI. Not quite making it to 1.2K, but then all those LED advantages.

Then there's also the Hive 575 and upcoming Aputure 600D, and for a powerful but affordable and not super heavy softlight, the 1200w Creamsource SpaceX. I often work without a professional gaffer, so having safe lights (non-HMI) that a PA can setup without worry of dying or breaking a $$$ bulb but that are still very powerful would be ideal for me.

I'd imagine the Creasource SpaceX could replace the M18 par, and the Apurture 600D or Hive 575 could replace a 1200w Frensel style (Dedo) HMI, while the 1200w HMI would probably be about 1.5 times as bright. It would be interesting to see Aputure come out with a 1200w light. In terms of high powered LED Fresnels, I've heard mostly bad things about Mole's big LED Fresnels.
 
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Eric Coughlin said:
I often work without a professional gaffer, so having safe lights (non-HMI) that a PA can setup without worry of dying or breaking a $$$ bulb but that are still very powerful would be ideal for me.
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I think this is a little extreme. If you're worried about a PA damaging an expensive HMI bulb you should also be worried about them damaging expensive LED lights. I'd be more worried about a PA trying to safely raise and lower any heavy light on a tall stand or navigate a crowded set while avoiding people and objects.
 
I'm saying HMIs require more skill and experience to operate, have more risks, and are more fragile due to having a bulb that can break. I have PAs handle my Litepanels Gemini on a regular basis and I'm not worried.
 
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