What Camera Under $5k has the best cinematic quality image?

[Denwa]

Keep in mind that video that is too sharp will look .. well.. like video. I actually turn DOWN the sharpness on my HMC150 for film looks.

1920x1080 at h.264 (AVCHD) compression vs 1440 x1080 with DVCPro compression? Really you need ot do some test shots and compare at whatever release format you are going for.

If you go with the HMC150, get QUALITY cards like ATP Promax or Sandisk Extremes. Both are pretty much bullet proof.

 

[AGMedia]

To the person who talked about selling the HMC150 to pay for a HPX170 -- for an entire essay of reasons -- this isn't the hottest idea. Imaging will be nearly identical -- and even extreme tech-head types will have a hell of a time differentiating the footage. If your issue is delivery -- run the numbers on upgrading your NLE to CS5 -- and that will allow for delivery to almost any format.


To the "OP" -- the guy with 5k for a feature film camera budget -- if that was my budget -- I'd go for at least two Canon T2i cameras, a few fast lenses, and a few sliders. If you've got more money -- add two more T2i's and more lenses. As long as you're not using any "kit lens," and are prepared for the headaches of a V-DSLR production -- for "5k" that blows away any single camera option.

The only exception to the above would be if your feature is about following some guy who is running around -- in which case any CMOS will make viewers ill -- so you'd go for an HMC150 (CCD) and never look back.

 

[AGMedia]

Has anyone had experience (good or bad) with a piece being submitted to TV (PBS, let's say) that originated on AVCHD Cam? That's one of my concerns.

Yeah. If you're pitching a completed work to a PBS affiliate (and/or national) it's all about content. The content people wouldn't know what "dvcprohd" is if it hit them on the head. The tech guys don't make the call on content. On the other hand, if you're submitting a proposal for a production and are seeking funding -- then the technical issues are addressed on some line on some quasi government form.

So -- if local or national PBS is your goal -- focus on content and writing and do your best to not make it look awful. Don't talk about "AVCCAM" and they won't ask.

In other words -- if you produce a piece of junk using an HPX170 -- saying to your local PBS affiliate "but it was filmed in DVCPROHD" isn't going to change anything.

 

[BennyWhiskers]

To the person who talked about selling the HMC150 to pay for a HPX170 -- for an entire essay of reasons -- this isn't the hottest idea. Imaging will be nearly identical -- and even extreme tech-head types will have a hell of a time differentiating the footage. If your issue is delivery -- run the numbers on upgrading your NLE to CS5 -- and that will allow for delivery to almost any format.


To the "OP" -- the guy with 5k for a feature film camera budget -- if that was my budget -- I'd go for at least two Canon T2i cameras, a few fast lenses, and a few sliders. If you've got more money -- add two more T2i's and more lenses. As long as you're not using any "kit lens," and are prepared for the headaches of a V-DSLR production -- for "5k" that blows away any single camera option.

The only exception to the above would be if your feature is about following some guy who is running around -- in which case any CMOS will make viewers ill -- so you'd go for an HMC150 (CCD) and never look back.

What is CMOS? What is CCD? Thanks.

Also, The T2i sounds like an attractive option, but we already have hacked gh1s with the works(lens etc.) and we need the hpx170 as the main camera, or whatever camera similar in body and quality(and mainly price). The T2i sounds like a sweet way to go for a zombie flick. Thanks.

 

[ikander]

What is CMOS? What is CCD? Thanks.

Also, The T2i sounds like an attractive option, but we already have hacked gh1s with the works(lens etc.) and we need the hpx170 as the main camera, or whatever camera similar in body and quality(and mainly price). The T2i sounds like a sweet way to go for a zombie flick. Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor#CCD_vs_CMOS

Personally, from a visual standpoint I have a hard time differentiating between HPX-170 and HMC-150 footage. There are definite advantages to the 170, but if you're trying to save money, I'd say the HMC-150 more than fits the bill.

 

[Christer]

Interesting discussion for me since I'm considering selling my 150 to buy a used 170 for a doc I'm about to start shooting. Trying to decide if it's worth it. SD vs P2. AVCHD vs DVCPROHD. Then there's the safety of knowing my cam works well with the risk of buying a used 170 with potential problems. Anyone know if the panny warranty is transferable? i figure I'd sell my 150 (with extra cards, etc) for around 2-2.5K and buy a 170 for 3-3.5K. But then there's the expense of P2.

Has anyone had experience (good or bad) with a piece being submitted to TV (PBS, let's say) that originated on AVCHD Cam? That's one of my concerns.

The SD functionality of the HMC makes it awesome for docs though. Since more and more computer stores carry class 6 cards these days, if you're in a pinch and can't clear your recorded media, it's not a huge hit to the wallet to just run to the nearest store and buy more SD cards. Doing that with P2 would destroy your budget. And everyone here knows the HMC can be visually spectacular if used right. That's a potent mix for a doc camera. Just my two cents.

 

[TheReverend]

What is CMOS? What is CCD? Thanks.

Also, The T2i sounds like an attractive option, but we already have hacked gh1s with the works(lens etc.) and we need the hpx170 as the main camera, or whatever camera similar in body and quality(and mainly price). The T2i sounds like a sweet way to go for a zombie flick. Thanks.

If you already have hacked GH1s and lenses for em, the AF100 is EXACTLY what you'd want as the main camera. PCM Audio, beautiful 1080p, variable frame rates, SD cards, ND filter, great HD monitoring... And under $5k! Just preorder now before they get too many. Release is late December if you can wait that long.

 

[BennyWhiskers]

If you already have hacked GH1s and lenses for em, the AF100 is EXACTLY what you'd want as the main camera. PCM Audio, beautiful 1080p, variable frame rates, SD cards, ND filter, great HD monitoring... And under $5k! Just preorder now before they get too many. Release is late December if you can wait that long.

Last I heard it was 6k, where can you preorder? Im going to check out BH and panasonic. I was planning on getting that camera anyways, but not till later, I'm waiting for the dust to settle after the release just to see/hear/read peoples initial reactions and responses. Plus the price drop.

 

[BennyWhiskers]

OK Guys heres an updated question, I might have to form a new topic for this one.

There are two movies, Movie A was shot on an HMC150 and Movie B was shot on a HPX 170.

Now me (knowing absolutely nothing about digital movie projectors), how would both of these fare on the "average" big screen movie projector? Aren't most projectors 4k rez?

 

[TheReverend]

Last I heard it was 6k, where can you preorder? Im going to check out BH and panasonic. I was planning on getting that camera anyways, but not till later, I'm waiting for the dust to settle after the release just to see/hear/read peoples initial reactions and responses. Plus the price drop.

B&H requires a full deposit. Others like full-compass or any panasonic dealer in your area can preorder. I believe the MSRP is $4999. But many are selling at $4795 and such.

 

[Barry_Green]

OK Guys heres an updated question, I might have to form a new topic for this one.

There are two movies, Movie A was shot on an HMC150 and Movie B was shot on a HPX 170.

Now me (knowing absolutely nothing about digital movie projectors), how would both of these fare on the "average" big screen movie projector? Aren't most projectors 4k rez?

They'd look just fine, the average viewer probably wouldn't know the difference. Heck, lots of people sat through "28 Days Later" and didn't complain about the (abysmal) quality of that projected on the big screen. Standard-def films have been projected in theaters without people clawing their eyes out, including Oscar-nominated films like Murderball and Iraq In Fragments, and docs like Supersize Me, Open Water, Spellbound, and many others.

 

[DaFireMedic]

OK Guys heres an updated question, I might have to form a new topic for this one.

There are two movies, Movie A was shot on an HMC150 and Movie B was shot on a HPX 170.

Now me (knowing absolutely nothing about digital movie projectors), how would both of these fare on the "average" big screen movie projector? Aren't most projectors 4k rez?

I was able to attend the premiere of a Star Wars fan film called "Ryan vs. Dorkman 2", shot with a first generation HVX200, which is of lower quality (IMO) than the HMC150 or HPX170. It was shot in 720p and looked great on the big screen at a theater they had rented for the premiere.

 

[ikander]

I've noticed that projected footage always looks better than anything you could see on your TV. Maybe it's just the ambiance of watching something on the big screen, but even DV looks better to me projected.

 

[BennyWhiskers]

They'd look just fine, the average viewer probably wouldn't know the difference. Heck, lots of people sat through "28 Days Later" and didn't complain about the (abysmal) quality of that projected on the big screen. Standard-def films have been projected in theaters without people clawing their eyes out, including Oscar-nominated films like Murderball and Iraq In Fragments, and docs like Supersize Me, Open Water, Spellbound, and many others.

Thanks Barry, always cool seeing you respond to threads. I'll have to watch all of those and get a feel for the difference in quality.

 

[BennyWhiskers]

I've noticed that projected footage always looks better than anything you could see on your TV. Maybe it's just the ambiance of watching something on the big screen, but even DV looks better to me projected.

You think so? I haven't had a chance to watch both and compare.