What Camera Under $5k has the best cinematic quality image?

B

BennyWhiskers

Active member
The budget is set at $5k for a camera to be used for an indie flick. I've heard the HMC150 is good for new filmmakers, but still feel like I could get a better camera since it's only 3K and there's 2K left.

I liked the camera they used on "paranormal activity" but it's not really confirmed that it was the actual camera used, just speculation. Link here

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-FX1-Definition-Camcorder-Optical/dp/B00068JKR0

I would like to use panasonic since I'm very familiar with them already but will cross brands if the camera is worth it.

I was reading in an earlier thread that the HMC150 provides a nice theater image, but compared to footage shot on a red, there is a large gap.

Are most theaters using the 2k projection?

I don't want to spend all this money and then find out it looks like crap on the big screen. Thanks.
 
AF100 is probably your best bet. Releases December. Check out the forum.

Otherwise, I'd get an HPX170 over a HMC. You get HDSDI out, and DVCPROHD. Totally worth it.
 
TheReverend said:
AF100 is probably your best bet. Releases December. Check out the forum.

Otherwise, I'd get an HPX170 over a HMC. You get HDSDI out, and DVCPROHD. Totally worth it.
Click to expand...

I checked out the HPX170. Can you explain what the advantage is for the HDSDI out, DVCPROHD in? Thanks.
 
Do you need the shallow DOP effect or not? If yes, the AF100 will be a better choice when available.
 
Is $5000 your total budget, or for the cam only? If you are starting from scratch, the cam will be a small portion of your gear. Think lights, tripods, audio, and much more.

By the time you outfit a AF-100 with lenses and accessories , it will be well over $5000.

There is much more to being cinematic than just the cam.

Grant
 
As said above, $5K is for exactly what? $3K buys you a camera with no memory cards. How much did you add for these? They're not pocket change and you'll likely need several cards - even if you are only doing short takes.

If you want shallow DOF then you either need an adapter or go the DSLR route.

Do you have audio in a separate budget? HMC audio is OK but I would not use the built in mics so you will need mics (plan on several) and cables (several) etc, You may need to buy a backup audio recorder (such as the zoom h4n) if the camera is ever going to be more than just a few feet away and you don't want trailing cables. Being further away and zooming in can help with shallower DOF on a regular camera, but it's still not as good as using an adapter or DSLR.

Spare batteries. These aren't cheap unless you can wait several weeks for them to come from china. You won't want to hold up shooting while you recharge the battery, so plan on several 3 hour battery packs. That's another few hundred $.

Do you have a travel bag / case already? Add that to the budget - you'll need it.

Got a good card reader ?

Got a field monitor that you can check focus / framing on ? It's nice to check focus etc before breaking down the set and finding out it's too late. The cost of a field monitor can easily pay for itself compared to having to reshoot something because you find out later (in post) that you were out of focus. Alternatives are laptops but you need to add time to each shot to download the footage prior to viewing.

The camera is just the start ......
 
Last edited:
I just noticed the title of this thread - my answer. The one being used by the more talented shooter. Having the best camera means little if theres little to nothing of anything of the other elements required to take pretty pictures.

$5k is not a lot of budget for a feature camera. You might want to go with the best you can get that includes all that you need, then spend the time you saved researching cameras on making sure youre set to get the right shots.

Im assuming your sorted on everything else.
 
BennyWhiskers said:
I checked out the HPX170. Can you explain what the advantage is for the HDSDI out, DVCPROHD in? Thanks.
Click to expand...

HDSDI out can get you uncompressed signal. Can be really handy. Lots of gear these days are running it, and it makes the cam more future proof. The 170's DVCPROHD will probably hold up better on the big screen. Especially if you grade significantly or if any green screening might occur.

Other advantages to Hpx170, wider FoV I believe. P2cards are more robust and reliable vs SD cards. And a lightly used one can be had anywhere from $3000-4000 alot of times with gear.

Disadvantages are expensive P2 cards. Not "full" 1080p sensor so 1080p can be a bit soft compared to some other 1080p cams. (I don't remember how sharpness compares to HMC)
 
SPrimeau said:
Do you need the shallow DOP effect or not? If yes, the AF100 will be a better choice when available.
Click to expand...

No the shallow dop isn't necessary, the AF100 would be a better camera for lots of reasons, but the design of the body and price aren't very appealing. It is a sweet camera though.
 
ggrantly said:
Is $5000 your total budget, or for the cam only? If you are starting from scratch, the cam will be a small portion of your gear. Think lights, tripods, audio, and much more.

By the time you outfit a AF-100 with lenses and accessories , it will be well over $5000.

There is much more to being cinematic than just the cam.

Grant
Click to expand...


I agree 100%, the style of the film is 'found footage' so a tripod isnt necessary. Well do alot of daytime shooting but lights are another necessity. Audio - very important. I'll think about to see how much I'm willing to spend on required extras for shooting, but checking out the HPX170, I think if I purchase this and all other requisites, I won't be over 5k that much. We'll see, number crunching time.
 
Exact said:
As said above, $5K is for exactly what? $3K buys you a camera with no memory cards. How much did you add for these? They're not pocket change and you'll likely need several cards - even if you are only doing short takes.

If you want shallow DOF then you either need an adapter or go the DSLR route.

Do you have audio in a separate budget? HMC audio is OK but I would not use the built in mics so you will need mics (plan on several) and cables (several) etc, You may need to buy a backup audio recorder (such as the zoom h4n) if the camera is ever going to be more than just a few feet away and you don't want trailing cables. Being further away and zooming in can help with shallower DOF on a regular camera, but it's still not as good as using an adapter or DSLR.

Spare batteries. These aren't cheap unless you can wait several weeks for them to come from china. You won't want to hold up shooting while you recharge the battery, so plan on several 3 hour battery packs. That's another few hundred $.

Do you have a travel bag / case already? Add that to the budget - you'll need it.

Got a good card reader ?

Got a field monitor that you can check focus / framing on ? It's nice to check focus etc before breaking down the set and finding out it's too late. The cost of a field monitor can easily pay for itself compared to having to reshoot something because you find out later (in post) that you were out of focus. Alternatives are laptops but you need to add time to each shot to download the footage prior to viewing.

The camera is just the start ......
Click to expand...

I agree, the camera isn't the only important tool. I'm very big into audio, a good chunk of the budget will be spent on microphones, cables, recording gear etc. Extra batteries, yes. I don't think the field monitor will be a necessity, although I'll look into it.

The location were shooting at is set on a House on the river, mainly with shots from the yard and other open spots around the house. So the sets won't have alot of tinkering with or shuffling objects around.

Thanks for your time.
 
Noel Evans said:
I just noticed the title of this thread - my answer. The one being used by the more talented shooter. Having the best camera means little if theres little to nothing of anything of the other elements required to take pretty pictures.

$5k is not a lot of budget for a feature camera. You might want to go with the best you can get that includes all that you need, then spend the time you saved researching cameras on making sure youre set to get the right shots.

Im assuming your sorted on everything else.
Click to expand...

Yep, everything is good to go, just got to get the gear. Thanks.
 
TheReverend said:
HDSDI out can get you uncompressed signal. Can be really handy. Lots of gear these days are running it, and it makes the cam more future proof. The 170's DVCPROHD will probably hold up better on the big screen. Especially if you grade significantly or if any green screening might occur.

Other advantages to Hpx170, wider FoV I believe. P2cards are more robust and reliable vs SD cards. And a lightly used one can be had anywhere from $3000-4000 alot of times with gear.

Disadvantages are expensive P2 cards. Not "full" 1080p sensor so 1080p can be a bit soft compared to some other 1080p cams. (I don't remember how sharpness compares to HMC)
Click to expand...

The 1080 will hopefully hold up, there won't be too many shots requiring a full zoom where the HD can get very groggy when zoomed all the way in. No green screens will be used, I'm familiar with coloring but I'm not the coloring guy, I'll have to ask what he thinks on this.

P2 cards sound like a professional alternative to SD cards, should be a good investment.

I'm not completely sure what you meant by uncompressed signal, are you referring to the MPS? Are the files going to be gigantic? It's OK, I'm going to have access to a server with alot of terabytes. Bring on the 1080.
 
Quite simply, the HMC is an outstanding camera and can make awesome video if used correctly. Where you will notice the difference is if you try to mix it with other cameras that are sharper. The HMC is not the sharpest camera on the market, especially at 1080p, since the imagers are not full 1080. Other cameras such as the EX1 and XF305 are sharper, but of course cost a lot more. Even the HMC40 is sharper than the HMC 150 but is not so good in lower light and is not quite as user friendly to use.

You need to decide if the HMC 150 picture is good enough (for most people it is) and if it is there is no point looking any further or spending any more money. If it's not up to the job then pass on by and move to something else. Sounds simple, and in reality it is. 6db can introduce a little noise, but honestly a kiss with Neat Video will fix that most of the time without destroying the picture (i.e. don't over do it). 12db is an emergencies only setting for me, so as long as you are shooting with reasonable light you should be fine. Avoid being zoomed in all the way in low light, because it can be problematic.

In terms of SD vs P2, yes P2 are more robust, but if you buy decent SDHC cards and test them before hand (record until full, offload & check, repeat twice) you should be fine. Unless a card physically goes bad (which 'could' happen on P2 as well) you are unlikely to lose any shots with SDHC.
 
150 vs 170

150 vs 170

Interesting discussion for me since I'm considering selling my 150 to buy a used 170 for a doc I'm about to start shooting. Trying to decide if it's worth it. SD vs P2. AVCHD vs DVCPROHD. Then there's the safety of knowing my cam works well with the risk of buying a used 170 with potential problems. Anyone know if the panny warranty is transferable? i figure I'd sell my 150 (with extra cards, etc) for around 2-2.5K and buy a 170 for 3-3.5K. But then there's the expense of P2.

Has anyone had experience (good or bad) with a piece being submitted to TV (PBS, let's say) that originated on AVCHD Cam? That's one of my concerns.
 
I think that might be a step up in a few aspects but the visual quality of the two is nearly indistinguishable... aside from maybe an advantage in it's forginess quotient on greenscreen. I love the 150, and I'm considering selling it due to finances but it's a rock solid option.


For bang for buck on a feature, maybe the GH2 would be an option and then you'd be left with a great amount to get an audio recorder. Having a split system has so many advantages over being teathered to a camera all the time.
 
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