What budget cam has decent mic input and interchangeable lenses for our students?

M

Mavoz

Well-known member
Hi,
I'm a teacher of media in our school and we would like to buy several cameras that:

* Be used for video and photography
* Can swap lenses for our photography (+ video) students
* Shoot 1080 video
* Have a mic input and headphone option for use in interviews. (We run a student tv show)
(Dual audio is just an extra layer of complexity it would be good to avoid)
* We don't need the 'latest and greatest' quality...just good quality...
* Don't break the bank....we have a budget...and each extra dollar is one less camera we can buy!

Any cameras come to mind?

I think we need to settle on a family of cameras...that we can purchase a range of lenses for.

I'm thinking about going with Canon. But open to suggestions.

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
Get a few Canon Rebels. They'll be perfect for learning, plus you have the option of installing Magic Lantern. When I was in High School, we had one really nice camera (Sony VX1000) and like three Cannon ZR10's (they were Canon ZR, the number I don't know). Point being, Canon makes good stuff, and a Canon DSLR is perfect for learning.
 
Thanks all for replies...I am leaning towards going with the Canon DSLR family myself....(I already have Canon gear)

The idea of achieving both photography and video in the one package is appealing...

Here in Australia the local Camera stores have the 80D with a kit lens for about $1700 AUD. We would then supplement this with a bunch of lenses that kids in groups could rotate through to experience different features like portraits/bokeh/wide angle/macro etc.

I have wondered about the second hand option too....only thing is the school budgeting culture tends to be 'buy new'....but bang for buck...there might be a lot of merit just searching out a bunch of older Canon 70d's for example:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canon-E...942664&hash=item4b4a2e754f:g:e0wAAOSwNDdbXsPd


My biggest concert of all about these cameras is the mic and headphone aspects for video...

Has anyone here used a 70D or 80D with external mic? I found some threads where people described problems with the 80D....

We run an internal a 'tv news' show and have found the handheld mic option with Shure SM58's just a lot easier for kids to manage and get good quality compared to on camera mics or running around with boom poles.

...would like to use these with XLR adaptor into the cams...just not sure it would even work!

Thanks for all the ideas...
 
Mavoz said:
My biggest concert of all about these cameras is the mic and headphone aspects for video...

Has anyone here used a 70D or 80D with external mic? I found some threads where people described problems with the 80D....

We run an internal a 'tv news' show and have found the handheld mic option with Shure SM58's just a lot easier for kids to manage and get good quality compared to on camera mics or running around with boom poles.

...would like to use these with XLR adaptor into the cams...just not sure it would even work!

Thanks for all the ideas...
Click to expand...

I've been using a few Canon 80Ds as 2nd and 3rd cams on documentary shoots for a few years now. (A cam is a C100 mark II) The 80Ds have been rock solid and very versatile. When not on a gimbal (80D has DPAF), they will typically have a Rode VideoMicPro mounted, plus sometimes a wireless lav, both connected through a small Beachtek passive mixer.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/962864-REG/beachtek_mcc_2_2_channel_audio_adapter.html

I set the manual audio level in the camera to one tick over zero, and let the mics provide the gain. The knobs on the Beachtek allow for easy level adjustments. If you prefer XLRs to 3.5mm, I know Beachtek offers a few options for similar small mixers with XLR ports. although I haven't used those personally. Some are battery powered, so they can provide gain if needed. Also, unlike the 70D, the 80D has a headphone jack.
 
80Ds are very popular for learning...plus they have the superior DPAF with face-tracking which can be very fun for them to use for their shows.

Recording audio (especially in this case) will be perfectly fine. You can use the SM58s with any XLR to 3.5mm cable but keep in mind they are very low-sensitive mics and you'll have to raise the gain in the camera to get any usable audio which will introduce a 'hiss'. If the budget allows, I recommend picking up a few Beachtek DXA-Micro Pros...you'll be able to lower the gain in the camera and raise it through the hardware for perfectly clean audio. The DXA has lots of other neat features as well.

Also, you'll obviously have to speak right into the dynamic microphones, which should be fine for the 'tv news' show, but if any other projects come along (like commercials or films), they won't be usable unless you're okay with showing the microphone in the frame.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...a_micro_pro_dslr_camcorder_audio_adapter.html
 
Thanks so much Kinostadtfilms and NorBro for the info..much appreciated.

I'm thinking the 80D may well be the best camera option then...is three times more expensive than a used 70D...but is new with a warranty...so probably the right choice in our school context...

looks like I'll need to budget on a decent adaptor like the Beachtek...


Is a shame the camera companies don't build in a decent input in the first place...but I guess it would add cost for something that many don't need....

(Might have to check out one of those for my own Samsung NX1...as it might save me the trouble of recording external audio..)

As a matter of interest...are there any options out there that would provide the option of working as both a preamp like this...but also have a 'record to SD' feature...that we could use as an external audio recorder as well?

(We sometimes need kids recording audio for Voice over etc....so having that ability would be a great option..)

Looks like the Tascam DR-60D could be an option too....

Thanks.
 
You could do that too...of course it's more to teach though (which is good!).

If you buy any of the preamps and/or recorders, all of them (or most) have headphone jacks so you might be okay with the 70D if you don't care about DPAF.

I'm thinking the 'news show' would probably be mostly static anyway, so maybe you wouldn't use DPAF that much now that I think about. The regular push-AF from the 70D could be enough.

The video quality difference isn't too drastic. It's all still dated 1080p, unfortunately...but nice Canon colors!
 
NorBro said:
You could do that too...of course it's more to teach though (which is good!).

If you buy any of the preamps and/or recorders, all of them (or most) have headphone jacks so you might be okay with the 70D if you don't care about DPAF.

I'm thinking the 'news show' would probably be mostly static anyway, so maybe you wouldn't use DPAF that much now that I think about. The regular push-AF from the 70D could be enough.

The video quality difference isn't too drastic. It's all still dated 1080p, unfortunately...but nice Canon colors!
Click to expand...

Thanks...came across this Beaktek product too...

https://beachtek.com/product/dxa-slr-ultra/

Starting to get more expensive though...



hadn't actually heard of that Canon DPAF....sounds like quite an improvement...

might have to go back to Canon someday myself after my Samsung NX1 excursion...which is still a great cam even though they killed it...


EDIT:

The Tascam 60D is actually $50 cheaper here compared to what I've seen the Beachteks for... ....anyone used this thing as a pre amp instead of the Beachtek products?

https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p...-dslr-audio-recorder-mixer-tas-dr-60dmk2.html
 
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With many of these preamps, the main hardware - from one model to the next in the same line - may not change much. They all may sound the same until they get much more expensive and/or newer technology is implemented.

But many times you just end up paying for more features from one to the next such as gain (or more gain), XLRs (or more XLRs), VU meters, limiters, knobs, switches, etc.

It all really depends on your budget and goals. If you wanted to you could get decent audio from a $20 passive adapter if you used a very sensitive microphone since you're speaking straight into it anyway.

But with those dynamic microphones, you'll definitely need some juice if you want the best audio. (Or of course just use a recorder and do the dual-system sound for the best option in this case.)

DPAF is few years old and it's getting better and better...amazing on the 5D Mark IV and 1DX Mark II.

https://vimeo.com/153889003
 
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Mavoz said:
I'm thinking the 80D may well be the best camera option then...
Click to expand...

This is a great camera to consider. You’ll never get absolutely pristine in-camera audio from a DSLR, but this one is definitely not the worst I’ve heard and in some cases can be perfectly useful. I keep a RØDE VideoMic Pro on mine most of the time and get nats tracks that are helpful for news- and docu-style production.

Mavoz said:
As a matter of interest...are there any options out there that would provide the option of working as both a preamp like this...but also have a 'record to SD' feature...that we could use as an external audio recorder as well?

Looks like the Tascam DR-60D could be an option too....
Click to expand...

The DR-60DmkII is not a bad recorder. Be aware, though, that it and other recorders like it are rather clumsy when mounted under the camera. It just makes the whole contraption a bit unwieldy. I’ve shot small, no-budget projects on that exact combination (80D with DR-60DmkII) and, when I do, I have the recorder either strapped to me with a harness or hanging on the tripod next to the camera. It has a dedicated 3.5mm output designed specifically to feed DSLRs and camcorders, and a 6’ cable feeds the recorder into the camera with a little room to flex and bend.

This also allows the camera’s input gain to be pulled back a bit to help minimize any noise added in-cam. I think you’ll find this setup more than adequate for your needs.
 
Alex H. said:
This is a great camera to consider. You’ll never get absolutely pristine in-camera audio from a DSLR, but this one is definitely not the worst I’ve heard and in some cases can be perfectly useful. I keep a RØDE VideoMic Pro on mine most of the time and get nats tracks that are helpful for news- and docu-style production.


The DR-60DmkII is not a bad recorder. Be aware, though, that it and other recorders like it are rather clumsy when mounted under the camera. It just makes the whole contraption a bit unwieldy. I
Click to expand...

Thanks for those tips Alex....watched a bunch of videos last night on these field recorders...some great options out there since I bought my Zoom H4N...

Anyway I think I will budget on the 80D as our cam of choice.....then supplement it with a bunch of lenses.

Then will get a couple of recorders...thinking now about the Tascam 70D..as the form factor looks a bit more friendly to be bolted under the cam than the box like shape of the 60...

We then may be able to also get away with the internal mic input with a Rode mic too...

would love to get up to 12 cameras so there was enough for pairs in a class of 25...but will depend on budget...

Thanks!
 
Maybe have a look at the much maligned Canon M50. With an EF adapter. Still save yourself a few hundred dollars per unit over an 80D for the same IQ. You would need a headphone output workaround (like above, off a mic, or maybe with a HDMI to VGA audio adapter, around $20 if this works, maybe someone could chip in). You do get 4K, sort of.
 
Get yourself a bunch of secondhand Sony PMW-F3 or Sony FS700 (or heck, even a FS100! Some of them are going for practically free). Easily a better quality buy than a Canon C100.

Then get a few Nikon mount lenses, which you can pair with the likes of Nikon D7100/D5200/D5300/D5500/D7200/D500/D7000 cameras. (these are all stills cameras which again are a better buy for stills or video than the equivalent Canon Rebel / 60D / 7D / etc from Canon).
 
Mavoz said:
As a matter of interest...are there any options out there that would provide the option of working as both a preamp like this...but also have a 'record to SD' feature...that we could use as an external audio recorder as well?

(We sometimes need kids recording audio for Voice over etc....so having that ability would be a great option..)

Looks like the Tascam DR-60D could be an option too....

Thanks.
Click to expand...

http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-r...various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/

Tascam DR60Dmk2 is the best buy at its price point. But if you can afford the small extra cost for a Zoom F4 or F8n (or secondhand F8) then it is very very worthwhile, as these new F series recorders are a revolution in indie sound recording, bringing specs/features that cost many times more not long ago down to very affordable levels for everyone.
 
IronFilm said:
http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-r...various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/

Tascam DR60Dmk2 is the best buy at its price point. But if you can afford the small extra cost for a Zoom F4 or F8n (or secondhand F8) then it is very very worthwhile, as these new F series recorders are a revolution in indie sound recording, bringing specs/features that cost many times more not long ago down to very affordable levels for everyone.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I was interested in that Zoom F4 myself (no doubt overkill for our students though!)....the number of batteries required concerned me a bit though! I guess using a USB pack helps with this...

I quite liked the form factor of the Tascam 70D....but might be worth spending more on this as long term great option...

Thanks!
 
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