FS7: What about FS7 HDR Upgrade ??? - Only FS5 ?? - WHY?

If we consider a monitor as a set of 'variable power lightbulbs' where input voltage leads to brightness increase, in an array (lightbulb =pixel rgb pixel??) with some sort of digitial interface to translate input digital value to voltage then..

An expensive monitor may convert volts into more nits than a cheap one but for a single monitor..

709 : Input signal of 255-255-255 applies full voltage to the lightbulb and the monitor goes as bright as it can.

HDR : Input signal of 1024-1024-1024 (?) applies full voltage to the light bulb and the monitor goes as bright as it can

Difference to viewer.. none.

Clearly a monitor that is expecting 1024 to mean 'full bright' receiving a signal of 255 will not show full bright.

However a simple mathmatical transform can translate 255 to 1024.

Clearly 1024 levels allows more precision between 0 and 1025 compared to 0 and 255, but we all grade in 32bit float anyway, but most of our monitors dont really show us that.

Maybe HDR ready cameras 'bake' at those HDR levels and talk in them.. but we dont bake around here!


S
 
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I have a forthcoming chat about a feature, using FS7 or a BMC product.

The producers want the film to be HDR to make it 'future proof'.

It seems to me that any chat about 'specs' of the cameras, like shooting data eating raw on the BMC is basically waffle and we should choose the camera on which can deliver the best file.

(personally I think BMC proRes probably offers the best file per unit data but that is a different chat. The BMC has smaller DR than the FS7 so seems to me more suited to HDR)

S
 
Posting no 14 has not got the point fully. While it is true that our FS7 records footage with a wide dynamic range of up to 14 stops, it is also true that up to now the FS7 1 does not record to color spaces like rec2020 or does not deliver metadata to allow an HDR-UHD-TV to HDR. So a direct playback of HDR footage by the FS7 is not foreseen really. And that is what this firmware seems to deliver to the FS5 or will be delivered by firmware-update to the GH5.

True, in most cases the LOG footage will be graded to HDR anyway. So I think it will be a minor need for users who produce HDR really. BUT for consumers (so not the target group of a FS7) that will make a major difference. On the other hand, such a feature could be valueable in a studio setting too. So from that side I would expect a firmware update for the FS7 I too.
 
+1, Wolfgang.

Piotr

PS. Such an upgrade will also influence they way we're grading for HDR now; with the source material already being in Rec.2020 space, only the gamma will need to be "translated" from S-log3 to BT.2084. It may or may not bring better results - depending on the quality difference between the (future) native 2020 recording, and the transformation from the current S-Gamut3(Cine) to Rec.2020 by RCM most of use... So, if it turns out that RCM does it better than the Sony's future impementation of Rec.2020, we may as well stick to S-Gamut3 with our FS7s as it's a wider color space than Rec.2020, anyway.
 
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At a presentation about grading HDR recently one of the discussions that came up was where to put the "white point" in HDR grading. The senior colorist seemed to think around 60IRE. But I guess it depends on the nit output of any particular standard.
 
To grade HDR you will use tools where the waveform monitor can be set to a nit scale. Like Resolve or raw viewer. White will be at 100nit typically, but highlights will go higher.
 
What Wolfgang said. At the beginning of my Resolve/HDR "adventure", I was so excited about being able to go much, much higher than the 100 nits limit that my first HEVC HDR deliverables were crazy punchy, contrasty and bright.... Only with time did I grasp the idea of keeping the overall brightness and contrast "normal" ("SDR", if you like), with only direct light sources and/or specular highlights reaching my Samsung limit of some 1,400 nits. BTW, this figure is a parameter TV manufacturers quote proudly, and indeed there are sets today on the market sporting 2,000 or more nits - but one needs to remember that this is the maximum brightness level of no more than some 5% of the screen area, and that for a limited period of time, too! Otherwise a very clever ABL nanny will dim those super-bright spots for you...

Piotr
 
Exactly. Few people understand that an HDR picture will not be much brighter than an old rec709 picture. Highlights are brighter but that is it.
 
So - Thank you -ALL - Now I can clearly see (about 1000nits ;-) ) and see that my FS7 can do HDR
with Slog 3 and SGammut without cine -
Thanks for the replies
Sly from Austria
 
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