Went through ALL my vimeo files and re-uploaded from 1 pass 720p to DUAL pass 1080p
- Thread starter Blackout
- Start date
What i dont get is my camera on a tripod i filmed some 720P footage then some 24P of the same view and cant see any difference,i know i must be a blind old geezer but my son is not and we have 3 1920x1880P tvs here including a 50" and 42" whats going on, i realy like my GH2 but i still cant get the color equivalent to my HDV hv 30,Regarding vimeo i only have one upload setting 720P because i dont use it often and dont pay i suppose.
If this is off track a bit sorry but its not the sort of thing to open a thread with.
If this is off track a bit sorry but its not the sort of thing to open a thread with.
Blackout
Veteran
Not off track. Some people say this. I don't quite get it as to me there is a HUGE difference - even on a 24 inch LCD I completely see the difference from 720p to 1080p detail... and the bigger you go, the more you see it -
To really demonstrate - on a very big monitor while you are watching some of these vimeo HD gh2 things in full screen mode, hit the "scaling is on" button on the right (it is ON by default) and change it to "scaling is OFF".
On most videos you will see the video now shrink to its native size of 720p which on a 1080p monitor or set will be HALF of the screen. It will be in the middle surrounded by a huge black square. That black square is all the native detail you are missing, and that needs to be 'made up' by the upscaling algorithm.. basically, it is like stretching silly putty out. Notice how now the video looks a lot sharper - even though it is smaller - that is because it is at its NATIVE resolution now and your computer doesn't have to scale it up to 1080p. Everyone's got a different graphics card in their computer and upscaling is an ugly thing most of the time. It softens the image a lot and introduces new artifacts and aliasing.
But I have heard people say the same thing you have.
I have heard people even say "why should I get blu-ray it looks the same as DVD"
Maybe on a standard def old tube TV it does... but no way in hell on a 50" LCD or LED HD set!
I think that is pure insanity I mean man look at your screen!!!! Play the BBC's "PLANET EARTH" series on DVD, and then play it on BLU-RAY, and look at the scene right at the start of the series that has about a million birds flying south for the winter.... you can see every tiny tiny one clearly defined on blu-ray 1080p where it's just a blurry mess on DVD.
Some of the cleanups and masters to blu-ray are SO incredible, that I dare say they are BETTER than they were when they were in the theaters played on actual film! It really is like owning your very own 'print' of the film! For instance - Beauty and the Beast remastered blu-ray is so absolutely stunning - it's a jaw dropper! Every time I bring someone new into my home theater and I want to 'impress' them I put that on and I put the BBC planet earth series on my projection screen and their jaws and face do the Mcully Culkin drop of WOW.
There are SOME players and computer software that do a half decent up conversion on DVDs but it's a pale match for a real 1080p hd recording that has been PROPERLY filmed, and compressed as minimally as is possible.
Some HD tranfers look no better than the DVD. Example: Terminator (the original) looks awful while Terminator II got the full nine yards of re mastering about 10 times and is incredible in HD. But James Cameron is a Jacka$$. A genius jacka$$, but.. man... talk about milking the cow and screwing your audience. Already there are about 19 different versions of AVATAR released... gimme a break... but back to the point:
When you say you're a blind old geezer are you being serious? Do you have bad vision? Do you have glasses or contacts to correct it? I mean if you have really blurry vision I guess sure... you're not gonna see the difference in much of ANYTHING...
To really demonstrate - on a very big monitor while you are watching some of these vimeo HD gh2 things in full screen mode, hit the "scaling is on" button on the right (it is ON by default) and change it to "scaling is OFF".
On most videos you will see the video now shrink to its native size of 720p which on a 1080p monitor or set will be HALF of the screen. It will be in the middle surrounded by a huge black square. That black square is all the native detail you are missing, and that needs to be 'made up' by the upscaling algorithm.. basically, it is like stretching silly putty out. Notice how now the video looks a lot sharper - even though it is smaller - that is because it is at its NATIVE resolution now and your computer doesn't have to scale it up to 1080p. Everyone's got a different graphics card in their computer and upscaling is an ugly thing most of the time. It softens the image a lot and introduces new artifacts and aliasing.
But I have heard people say the same thing you have.
I have heard people even say "why should I get blu-ray it looks the same as DVD"
Maybe on a standard def old tube TV it does... but no way in hell on a 50" LCD or LED HD set!
I think that is pure insanity I mean man look at your screen!!!! Play the BBC's "PLANET EARTH" series on DVD, and then play it on BLU-RAY, and look at the scene right at the start of the series that has about a million birds flying south for the winter.... you can see every tiny tiny one clearly defined on blu-ray 1080p where it's just a blurry mess on DVD.
Some of the cleanups and masters to blu-ray are SO incredible, that I dare say they are BETTER than they were when they were in the theaters played on actual film! It really is like owning your very own 'print' of the film! For instance - Beauty and the Beast remastered blu-ray is so absolutely stunning - it's a jaw dropper! Every time I bring someone new into my home theater and I want to 'impress' them I put that on and I put the BBC planet earth series on my projection screen and their jaws and face do the Mcully Culkin drop of WOW.
There are SOME players and computer software that do a half decent up conversion on DVDs but it's a pale match for a real 1080p hd recording that has been PROPERLY filmed, and compressed as minimally as is possible.
Some HD tranfers look no better than the DVD. Example: Terminator (the original) looks awful while Terminator II got the full nine yards of re mastering about 10 times and is incredible in HD. But James Cameron is a Jacka$$. A genius jacka$$, but.. man... talk about milking the cow and screwing your audience. Already there are about 19 different versions of AVATAR released... gimme a break... but back to the point:
When you say you're a blind old geezer are you being serious? Do you have bad vision? Do you have glasses or contacts to correct it? I mean if you have really blurry vision I guess sure... you're not gonna see the difference in much of ANYTHING...
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yes i do get what you say but i am not talking about vimeo but regrding my GH2 but strait 720/24P play,my tv shows great picture quality,watching a BD like Baraka is truly brilliant,as far as vimeo goes i have been told if you use the free version you only get 720P hd i dont know if thats true if it is not i can load the clips and show tommorow.what i wont say is BLU RAY looks the same as DVD that is crap,only poorly reconditioned films can look even close.
forgot to say i wear reading glasses but my distance vision i fine.
forgot to say i wear reading glasses but my distance vision i fine.
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Blackout
Veteran
Ok well now we are getting close here.
First off - if you have the free vimeo account, your video ALWAYS gets encoded down to 1 pass 720p. It's ok... but that's it. It's ok. The $60 a YEAR (edit - I mistakenly wrote MONTH when I originally posted this) for superior encoding is worth it to me. It wasn't until they added 1080p streaming support (which is hidden). I get a lot of jobs from just linking to a demo on my vimeo account that I use more for my higher end stuff, and then my youtube accounts are just for the networking and viral video use to get your stuff out there.
But you are saying you can't see the difference between your 720p mode and 1080p mode directly from your GH2 to your 50 inch 1080p TV? That seems REALLY odd.
First off - 720p is 60p, so right off the bat that looks very different - it should look like a live TV news show. 1080p is 24p (well at least cinema mode.... maybe you have it set to that nasty 60i...) and should look like FILM or a movie does... so that look should STRIKINGLY different to you.
Make sure you film in 24p cinema mode... make sure you have a truly FULL 1080p HD TV... and also - HOW are you playing your clips? Are you using the mini hdmi out from the camera? Or you burning them on a blu-ray... are you playing them straight from the memory card in a slot player on a blu-ray or TV... are you playing them on your computer? all this matters to how they are encoded.. decoded, and finally viewed and seen by your eyes.
First off - if you have the free vimeo account, your video ALWAYS gets encoded down to 1 pass 720p. It's ok... but that's it. It's ok. The $60 a YEAR (edit - I mistakenly wrote MONTH when I originally posted this) for superior encoding is worth it to me. It wasn't until they added 1080p streaming support (which is hidden). I get a lot of jobs from just linking to a demo on my vimeo account that I use more for my higher end stuff, and then my youtube accounts are just for the networking and viral video use to get your stuff out there.
But you are saying you can't see the difference between your 720p mode and 1080p mode directly from your GH2 to your 50 inch 1080p TV? That seems REALLY odd.
First off - 720p is 60p, so right off the bat that looks very different - it should look like a live TV news show. 1080p is 24p (well at least cinema mode.... maybe you have it set to that nasty 60i...) and should look like FILM or a movie does... so that look should STRIKINGLY different to you.
Make sure you film in 24p cinema mode... make sure you have a truly FULL 1080p HD TV... and also - HOW are you playing your clips? Are you using the mini hdmi out from the camera? Or you burning them on a blu-ray... are you playing them straight from the memory card in a slot player on a blu-ray or TV... are you playing them on your computer? all this matters to how they are encoded.. decoded, and finally viewed and seen by your eyes.
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Well we are pal,the 24P was in 24P cinema mode the 720P was pal 720P SH,i have only watched direct cam hdmi play so far but i will see if BD is the same but it cant have more sharpness than direct cam play surely.Regarding youtube is this 720P max.
Blackout
Veteran
No... youtube will do 1080p for free.... hell youube will even insanely do 4K if you are a RED users but it looks like crap currently. Youtube's 1080p is not as robust as the vimeo plus is but I think it is a far better encode than vimeo's free encode.
I'm not sure how the GH2 works in pal mode.... maybe that's the issue.. isn't pal supposed to be 50p and 25p? I have seen a lot of threads about pal people complaining about the GH2 is no good for pal but I haven't given much attention to it since it doesn't effect me nor would I know the answer as I have three NTSC region 1 GH13s.
I'm not sure how the GH2 works in pal mode.... maybe that's the issue.. isn't pal supposed to be 50p and 25p? I have seen a lot of threads about pal people complaining about the GH2 is no good for pal but I haven't given much attention to it since it doesn't effect me nor would I know the answer as I have three NTSC region 1 GH13s.
Yes pal is 50i 25P 720P and 24P the only camcorders i know that do 50P are the Pana 700 series,anyway i have put yesterdays 28m edited footage on a HD disc and yes i can see the difference in the 24P being sharper,but if i am going to film in 24P it can only be with a tripod and pans to a very minimum or there is moire and ailising.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duKU_weL3q8 here is a youtube of the clips, the same clips are are repeated 3 times and its difficult to assess that well due to the different positions of the people each frame rate.
Blackout
Veteran
I find that out of the box the GH2 exhibits a lot more moire and aliasing than the GH13 at a high bitrate. Whenever I say this of course I get yelled at by angry defensive GH2 lovers but I'm sorry, I report it as I see it. At a minimum, I would turn the GH2 sharpness down quite a bit. It seems very over sharpened over edge enhanced to me and not so much more detailed. People say they shot a resolution chart and it's getting more lines than the GH13.. but those people are not using my hack, nor are they MOVING the camera around when shooting the chart which immediately throws such resolution out the door due to the GH2s codec. Barry has said it a million times: Charts don't mean kaka - what do the IMAGES look like. To me, I am far more happy with my GH13 image for now and the GH2 would have to be improved (ie.. hacked) for me to buy it.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
What were you encoding settings sir?
Looks great!
Looks great!
Blackout
Veteran
As I said in the other thread I don't want to publicly post my GH1 hack settings because they cause some GH13s to lock up or completely freeze, and I don't want people being mad at me for blowing up their camera. I haven't isolated what the exact variable is but it may be Chinese made from Japan made bodies... or it may have nothing to do with that.
However, I am working with lpowell in a joint effort to leave the GH13 community with one final gift, a stable version of the 24pn hack I use - stabilized by his fine tuning and tweaking to remove the empty frame stuff that can sometimes happen in 24pn that I don't quite understand. If we are successful, you shall see it posted.
Of course as soon as we do this, vitali will most likely hack the GH2 and it will be for naught.
Lol.
If it is encoding from MTS to mpeg4 you are talking about - I use Sony Vegas 10 AVC... set to high profile, 20mbit, cabac, 1920,1080 progressive at 23.976000. No intermediate codec. Uploaded to vimeo +, then the secret button clicked and it is encoded in vimeo's much higher quality 2 pass 1080p mode.
- Blackout
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