Wedding vid help: Wrong forum, but I need help, and I like you guys

A

Altared Weddings

Member
We shoot wedding videos in the Austin, TX area and while we've been doing them a while, I need some advice on what other guys are delivering.

We deliver a "love story" (short highlight reel), an "extended ceremony" and then some other fun clips and bonuses.

Today we ran into our first real hurdle, we've had a client call and ask for more footage from the ceremony be added. We typically cut the ceremony down to 10-15 minutes so that it doesn't drag. First question, Are you other wedding video guys including EVERYTHING that happens in the ceremony, real time? I think that would be incredibly boring. We normally chop the tails off of the prayers, musical breaks, and any long pauses.

2nd question would be "how do you handle changes after the fact?" Do you allow changes at all? Do you have it in your contract that they can't have changes made, should we charge an hourly fee afterward, or should we suck it up and make changes for them. Ultimately, we want happy clients, but for me to go back and make the changes really burns my time, resources, and the costs of reprinting dvds and blu rays.

Thanks in advance,

Ryan Guthrie
Altared Weddings
 
Hi Ryan,

Wedding services are usually about 45-60 mins long over here (Church of England) and I usually take out the hymns (unless they are well sung) and remove pauses etc resulting in about 30 mins getting onto the video). I explain this when I meet the client and if they want the hymns in I will do this for them.

Regarding changes, I usually do these for free as long as they are reasonable. It's actually pretty rare that they are required. However, if they wanted major changes which make the video differ significantly from what I had agreed to provide I would probably charge them an edit fee. I've never had to do this though. One thing I do is put the video online for them to preview about a week before burning disks as this allows changes to be made more easily. I use Vimeo for this.

Hope that helps,

Stu
 
Save for the one Catholic wedding I've done, most of my weddings are in the 25-35 minute range... and that's everything from the moment the parents walk in to the moment the parents walk out. Yes, I leave everything in except for pauses during the processional. I don't cut anything out of the ceremony/sermon itself, No speeches, hymns, off key songs... nothing. Usually, everything is important to the folks I deal with, which is fine... it's usually not boring to me. But the important thing is that it's the couple's video, so it's not going to be boring to them.

As for changes, I give the couple a rough cut specifically so that they can review it for any changes they want. I don't charge for this. Like I said, it's their video. Yes, that can burn time, but I give them the rough on DVD (cheap), and usually, most of the time the changes aren't anything that can't be done in a few hours, and I figure that in ahead of time.
 
Our clients also get the whole wedding... We offer them an option for short version but 95% of them want the whole thing. I would prefer to cut them down, but I give them what they want.

As far as changes go, If I cut something out and did not ask them about it and they decide that they want it in the video well I consider that My Fault and I re-edit at no charge. If they tell me to make my own call on things and then they do not like it then they pay for changes on our editing rate. I let them know that up front though when they say "Just do what ever you think looks best".

Good luck...

Phil
 
We got to keep in mind that there are two types of clients, the ones that love the short form edit and would rather watch a 30 minute wedding video (coverage from the day) with maybe 10-15 being the ceremony.
And the rest that likes long form, now keep in mind many people don't think about this too much so unless you bring it up before hand, most people would probably expect to get long form... a benefit from long form is that is very fast to edit.

I would explain both and maybe even offer a package that includes both, short form for the friends and family to watch. Long form for the couple and the parents to watch (parents love the long form)

as far as changes goes, as long as they are with in reason... or if they're minor, it'll be in your best interest to do it for them. People like when they feel you go out of your way to please them!!!
 
What my clients get:

A few clips of pre-ceremony footage cut over music as intro to the ceremony.

FULL ceremony in real-time from start to end. It's the editors job to keep it interesting (me).

Highlights of the reception, with all important moments captured. Basically it plays out how the reception went, with focus on the main points of interest.

In most of my package's, a one song video montage is included.

-brown

HERE'S a writeup I did a LONG TIME AGO that seems to have helped a lot of folks around here.


Oh yeah, and when they the DVD back, they can look over it and ask for any and all change's be made ONE TIME at no charge. After the initial change's (if any... doesn't happen very often), we will still make more changes, but we charge.
 
Altared Weddings said:
We deliver a "love story" (short highlight reel), an "extended ceremony" and then some other fun clips and bonuses.

Today we ran into our first real hurdle, we've had a client call and ask for more footage from the ceremony be added. We typically cut the ceremony down to 10-15 minutes so that it doesn't drag. First question, Are you other wedding video guys including EVERYTHING that happens in the ceremony, real time? I think that would be incredibly boring. We normally chop the tails off of the prayers, musical breaks, and any long pauses.

2nd question would be "how do you handle changes after the fact?" Do you allow changes at all? Do you have it in your contract that they can't have changes made, should we charge an hourly fee afterward, or should we suck it up and make changes for them. Ultimately, we want happy clients, but for me to go back and make the changes really burns my time, resources, and the costs of reprinting dvds and blu rays.

Thanks in advance,

Ryan Guthrie
Altared Weddings
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I believe most wedding videographers include what you describe, except the ceremony is full length real time, except for obvious issues like both cameras being blocked or something that needs to be removed. Even longer Catholic weddings are full length real time with a little bit more lattitude to cut imperfect camera shots.

You didn't mention the reception. That is where it is acceptable to edit the footage to the content of the key events and to show the reception ambiance and then time compress the video.

As far as how to handle your situation, only you can decide, but I would lean towards the B&G side that full ceremony coverage, almost documentary style, could assumed to be included. Short and artistic edits are a bonus we all include.

My contract prices additional editing time at $100 per hour with no material charges. I know it is a PITA to re-edit, especially adding material, but I would suggest doing this one at no cost and call it a painfull learning experience.

Post this question in the DVinfo wedding forum and see what they say.
 
Obviously every company does it differently, so you can pick and choose what works best for your preferences out of all of these viewpoints.

I personally am very flexible with clients, but the work they see on my website usually has 15 minute edits of the ceremonies and that's what they hire me for, so I never really have a problem of wanting an edit after the fact. Since I always start out with a realtime multiclip edit, it's easy to place an extra bonus feature of uncut ceremony on the same DVD. I make everything else montage style except for the toasts, which I try to edit down to 5-ish minutes depending on whether you have some really powerful words, or someone rambling on and on about the good ol' days (doesn't seem to happen as much these days). But then there's the dreaded open mic.....
 
mikeshu and Superfresa66 are right... if you're style of condensed ceremonies is getting you business, more power to you. As to the changes, unless you spell it out in advance in the contract otherwise, I personally think it's good policy to give them a rough or near final version to approve (wedding or anything else), or request changes. That way, you have less headaches down the road. Plus, the number one thing I've learned from that is you can never have enough dancing. Ever.
 
Phil B said:
Our clients also get the whole wedding...
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For whatever it's worth all our clients want the same. We also provide a shortened "highlights" version but that's just a 3 to 12 min (depends on the package) highlights of each of the respective main parts but otherwise from procession to recession. Now pre-wed and reception gets edited down significantly.
 
Thanks for all the responses. This gives us a better idea of what would be expected as standard. I appreciate all the input. The place where I get torn, is I hate to have them come in and watch it on a computer, I have several clients who were very excited about seeing the whole thing in Blu Ray HD on their screen with their friends and families for the first time. THat makes it tough, because I have the cases, disks and everything printed, packaged and delivered before then. We'll have to keep playing with the results.

Thanks again,

Ryan
 
drdimento said:
For whatever it's worth all our clients want the same. We also provide a shortened "highlights" version but that's just a 3 to 12 min (depends on the package) highlights of each of the respective main parts but otherwise from procession to recession. Now pre-wed and reception gets edited down significantly.
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We do put a montage together at the start of the video of the bride getting ready and groom and groomsmen goofing off or what ever happens before the ceremony. Then at the end of the video after the reception they get a Highlight of the Service and Reception which is usually in the 4 min range. If they want a short form video of the entire day that is usualy in the 10 to 20 min rage, it just depends on type of music that they want and how much was going on. I hate to cut otu speeches but some wedding it seems like everyone has to get up and say something....

It really just comes down to area that you are in and what your clients expect. When I talk to some people in Ca it seems that more people only offer the short form as their normal package but you can get the whole thing if you want it, and for us it is just the opposite here in the Midwest...

Phil
 
Phil B said:
....It really just comes down to area that you are in and what your clients expect. When I talk to some people in Ca it seems that more people only offer the short form as their normal package but you can get the whole thing if you want it, and for us it is just the opposite here in the Midwest...Phil
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Yeah pretty much the same way here in the mid-Atlantic; most people want the traditional style of a chronological wedding video . . sort of like uncle Jim shooting the wedding but instead a pro. They even put it that way sometimes and probably why they don't want to pay out more than the 1000 to 1500 range although they pay the photographer 3000. On a positive note, we have totally changed our output format and therein have dictated to our 2010 clients that we won't do it their way anymore but the way that works best for us (we of course don't say it this way) by telling them that we will shoot and deliver a product that they will be pleased with now and every year instead of long and yawnable boring. The entire video will be no longer than about 60 to 90 minutes long (including the hightlights short AND table interviews) and will not be screen framed on any subject(s) for more than about 40 to 60 seconds.

We haven't had a lot of acceptance to these new specs for our 2010 productions but then again we do weddings for "extra" work and thus will not be pushed by our clients on the matter. To that end, our sales continue to be strong and we know that the end result will be more pleasing to the viewer than the former dull and boring style. Also, we will deliver the raw data to them on BluRay Disc for an additional $75 to $100 and they can have it in the raw if they so feel enticed to waste the better part of a day.

Oh and I forgot. We increased the prices.
 
as with any project, setting client expectations before the shoot begins is critical.

in general, we determine the final product and number of review phases in the contract and then make a special point of stipulating that if any of their requests fall outside of the signed contract the work will be billed at an hourly rate......assuming we have the capacity to do that work at that time and that the work is possible to do.

basically, you have to prepare for exactly this sort of scenario and as long as you've spelled it out beforehand, then its easily understood and very clear what course of action has to be taken and you won't get stuck working for nothing or in a tug-of-war power struggle with the client trying to squeeze more out of you.

never ever make assumptions! write it down, put it in the contract and get them to read and sign it.
 
averan said:
.....never ever make assumptions! write it down, put it in the contract and get them to read and sign it.
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We will concur with this 1000%. Never do a wedding under verbals . . EVER! We have been in business since 2000 and began heavy video production in 2005 (over 150 productions a year) and we have had only one litigation (which we won) and that was a Wedding video where the client argued the video quality and had we not had an agreement that spelled out the detail clearly, we would have been in a lot of trouble. The judge found on our behalf and stated to the clients, "...there is nothing in this agreement which states that you have the right to argue the quality but in fact states that the production company will deliver the product to their productions high quality standards and you as their customer have signed this agreement stating that you agree to those standards. therefore, there is no arguable disagreement."

In fact, all our productions are under agreements . . ALL of them and if you intend to broadcast any of them over the airways, then you better have signed releases from ALL people in the production . . ALL of them. Moreover, for added protection our wedding agreement actually states that the client is responsible for obtaining releases from all their participants and audience.

To this end, some actually print right in their program at the bottom, "Please note that this wedding is being photographed and video recorded professionally and by continuing to be present as our guest you give us permission to phtography and video tape and record your pictures, images, or voice in our wedding video. Thank you and enjoy our day with us."
 
woah! thank you all for sharing great info. i'm not a professional videographer by all means but i do small gigs here and there. alot of these questions came up when i was thinking about them and this post answers alot of them. thanks again all!
 
cptpinoy said:
woah! thank you all for sharing great info. i'm not a professional videographer by all means but i do small gigs here and there. alot of these questions came up when i was thinking about them and this post answers alot of them. thanks again all!
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I know for me I'm always glad to help. If you move forward, feel free to PM me or post, I know there are a lot of us in the business and all are facing the same prob's and issues.

For us, if we weren't already in the business, we wouldn't get in. But, for me weddings are a passion and I enjoy doing them even though weddings are among the hardest and most stressful production projects we have. 1. You get one chance to get it right. 2. You have to start and run solid on someone else's time table. 3. It's hard to find good help that does nice work without a lot of attention for good prices AND their work = a strong part of your result. 4. A lot of legal work riding on a wave of potential issues. 5. The bride and groom would love to pay you less even though the work you do is worth more than what you charge.

Couple rules to follow:
  • Never use house audio.
  • Never rely on anyone other than one of YOUR people to do anything.
  • Always ask the officiator what your limits are in advance.
  • Attend the rehearsal if possible and introduce yourself to the officator and get the answser to the above.
  • Tell the photographer in advance what you are going to do and tell him unless he wants to be the star of the Bride and Grooms video, he will want to stay out of the front of the video camera.
  • Tell the Bride and Groom in advance your intent and that it is their responsibility to instruct their photographer and if they want him to have the forefront, then understand he will be in a lot of their video.
  • Arrive gads of time ahead of the ceremony (that's 2 hrs min for us) and test everything twice (Santa Clause does and that kind of magic is expected from you - TRUST ME)
  • Always have a contract that spells EVERYTHING out in detail.
  • Don't forget to put your meal in the contract otherwise you might get hungry (experience speaking).
  • Always have at least a 300W professional (we use Arri fresnels) and if the test lighting at the rehearsal is low ask if you can use that lamp in the back and then set the barn doors so that only the immediate area needed is lit. BTW, any brighter and you'll probably be escorted out.
  • Monitor audio continually and mix or separate channel all mics and/or feeds from YOUR sources.
  • Have a high quality mic at the reception and set it to take a feed from between the DJ's low and mid frequencies and wireless that to the camera or your audio recording device plus an on camera condenser (not internal) shotgun (pencil) mic for both solid sourcing and background, interviews, etc.
  • Have at least one spare for everything you have including batteries, tapes, lights, lamps, cameras (if possible), mics, etc.
  • Never . . I repeat, NEVER tell the Bride and Groom of complicaitons . . work it out. Up to this point in their relationship this is one of the greatest moments of their lives, don't add stress to an already stressful day by adding to it. Just troubleshoot, communicate, and resolve the prob on your own. I've had everything go wrong that you can think of and I've never told them EVER. I just find solutions.
  • Well there's probably another dozen or so but this will get you started and others can add to the list as I want to get back to the Yankees/Angels 4th game.

Have fun. Weddings are fun. If you're a guy, where else can you shoot video and have beautiful women in your lens, smiling and looking the prettiest they will ever look, happy, and everyone is having a wonderful time? No where. However, with that bene comes a lot of stress, rush, pressure, fear, pucker zone, suicide walk, etc. Again, have fun OR if the list gives you fear, shoot something else cuz weddings will definitely challenge your patience and drive. Remember the word "Bridezilla" came from somewhere.
 
What I did for ceremony is to keep it full length but cut off all the wait time when there were nothing's happening. Then when authoring the DVD, make sure you add chapter marks at the next scene (vow exchange, ring exchange, unity candle, the you may kiss the bride moment)... so even if it gets boring, they can just hit the next button on the remote.

Then of course, the highlights video.
 
Always have a contract that spells EVERYTHING out in detail.
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Just an idea, but make sure the contract has a limit of liability clause. I remember a case where the DJ messed up and the couple tried to sue the DJ for a rather hefty amount. (I assume they figured they could cover part of the cost of their wedding.)

The couple didn't win the hefty amount they wanted, but with a different case and different judge, who knows....


Bob Diaz
 
For your contract I would suggest joining a body such as the IOV (in the UK, I guess there are equivalents elsewhere). They provide a contract that you can use with clients which has been checked by lawyers and honed over the years, so it should be pretty rock solid.
 
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