C200: Want to shoot 2K only on your C200?

puredrifting

puredrifting

Major Contributor
I am sure that many of you have already discovered this but for those who haven't, if you are shooting CFast for Cinema RAW Light, you are often wanting to shoot 2K proxies at the same time. Many would like to shoot 2K without having to shoot Cinema RAW Light. Simple, insert a full CFast card into the camera. It will allow you to shoot as much 2K as you want while not recording Cinema RAW Light. I discovered this on a shoot last week when I filled up my CFast cards all of the way. I thought the camera would quit recording but the 2K recording continues and you can start and stop it. If you are cheap, buy a 64GB Cfast card and just keep it filled up and inserted in the C200. You can then shoot as much 2K as you'd like to. It's only 35Mbps so a 256GB SD card allows me to record 973 minutes of 2K.

It would be nice if Canon gave us the ability to just choose 2K but in the meantime, this is an easy workaround.

Enjoy!
 
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AlkaliDigital said:
Man, I feel like the C200 was so rushed. Totally reminds me of RED in the early days. Except I have little hope for editing Canon Raw Lite natively like RED RAW. It’s not really RAW format...basically just log.
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Not to derail this thread, but why do you say it's not RAW? Over on the Resolve forum, a poster reported back after talking to Michael Edwards of Canon, and according to him:

"I was able to speak with Michael Edwards, Canon's Pro Market Specialist and the first Canon representative I've spoken with that knows enough to be conversational on this topic. He stated emphatically that Canon has provided all the necessary information to Blackmagic, that the raw light format is a file size compression (hence the light) but is not handicapped in any way visually or with regards to post processing capability, and that it's Blackmagic that we're all waiting on to properly support it."
Link: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=61984&p=374881&hilit=canon+raw#p374112

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but RED in the early days pretty much required a several thousand dollar RED Rocket card and a beefy PC to edit the files natively, and then (if memory serves) only in REDcine-X. It's not like you could just edit R3Ds in premiere on a laptop like we can do in Resolve with CRL files.
 
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puredrifting said:
I am sure that many of you have already discovered this but for those who haven't, if you are shooting CFast for Cinema RAW Light, you are often wanting to shoot 2K proxies at the same time. Many would like to shoot 2K without having to shoot Cinema RAW Light. Simple, insert a full CFast card into the camera. It will allow you to shoot as much 2K as you want while not recording Cinema RAW Light. I discovered this on a shoot last week when I filled up my CFast cards all of the way. I though the camera would quit recording but the 2K recording continues and you can start and stop it. If you are cheap, buy a 64GB Cfast card and just keep it filled up and inserted in the C200. You can then shoot as much 2K as you'd like to. It's only 35Mbps so a 256GB allows me to record 973 minutes of 2K.

It would be nice if Canon gave us the ability to just choose 2K but in the meantime, this is an easy workaround.

Enjoy!
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Haha it's so simple I can't believe it took us this long as a group to think of it. Good find. The fact that you can't just choose this recording mode seems like another conscious decision made to protect the C300 II...
 
Hacks are good! ;-) It would be very nice to shoot 2K and 1080 CRL to the CFast cards but I am not holding my breath.
 
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indiawilds said:
Can't believe it. Great find. Canon should give the ability to shoot only high quality 2K as well.
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2k 12-bit XF-AVC to CFast ala like it's big brother would certainly be nice. But we all know that'll never happen, Canon's Marketing would clutch their pearls if the engineers proposed it.
 
Fahnon said:
And correct me if I'm wrong here, but RED in the early days pretty much required a several thousand dollar RED Rocket card and a beefy PC to edit the files natively, and then (if memory serves) only in REDcine-X. It's not like you could just edit R3Ds in premiere on a laptop like we can do in Resolve with CRL files.
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That's not a very fair comparison, haha...I mean what did one expect in 2007 or so?

You're talking about 4K motion pictures while a lot of professional post houses used similar hardware (specialized computers, cards, etc) just to edit high-definition files!

Everything was completely different. I don't think many people knew what 4K was back then (I didn't) as most were still shooting standard-definition.

If Blackmagic chooses not to provide further support to CRL - and they very well may given where they are going with their own products - I think many people including myself will only see CRL as a high-quality recording format, but not a true RAW recording format like we're used to seeing with REDCODE and CinemaDNG.

Sometimes support simply does not come as we have seen with FCPX and CinemaDNGs. I know that's a bit different as it's an Apple vs. Adobe thing, but it's best to realize that we would be pretty fortunate to receive anything more than only various software (FCPX, Premiere, etc) having the ability to recognize and ingest CRL. We of course would at least welcome that (and expect that).

CinemaDNG is obviously supported by Resolve because Blackmagic makes cameras that shoot it. And REDCODE is universally supported because of Hollywood...companies want Hollywood to use their software. If the C200 ever makes it to that level and has enough people with influence to ask for a change, maybe we'll see one.

But speaking of that, if there was someone here who could enlighten us on the C700 workflow with CODEX software and hardware - which was specifically made for those blockbuster flicks IMO - maybe we could have a better understanding of what to expect with the C200.

In other words, if the C700 doesn't have similar access to all of those settings you see with RED and Adobe, why would the C200 have that, you know? IDK.

I once tried to browse through some of these videos to see what was available: https://codex.online/support/tutorials
 
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Exactly my thoughts! At this point I honestly wish it was shooting the C300 MKII codec instead of Canon RAW Lite. I really don’t like to transcode. I have a super powerful computer that can edit 5K Red Raw natively in full res without a hitch.
 
NorBro said:
That's not a very fair comparison, haha...I mean what did one expect in 2007 or so?

You're talking about 4K motion pictures while a lot of professional post houses used similar hardware (specialized computers, cards, etc) just to edit high-definition files!

Everything was completely different. I don't think many people knew what 4K was back then (I didn't) as most were still shooting standard-definition.

If Blackmagic chooses not to provide further support to CRL - and they very well may given where they are going with their own products - I think many people including myself will only see CRL as a high-quality recording format, but not a true RAW recording format like we're used to seeing with REDCODE and CinemaDNG.

Sometimes support simply does not come as we have seen with FCPX and CinemaDNGs. I know that's a bit different as it's an Apple vs. Adobe thing, but it's best to realize that we would be pretty fortunate to receive anything more than only various software (FCPX, Premiere, etc) having the ability to recognize and ingest CRL. We of course would at least welcome that (and expect that).

CinemaDNG is obviously supported by Resolve because Blackmagic makes cameras that shoot it. And REDCODE is universally supported because of Hollywood...companies want Hollywood to use their software. If the C200 ever makes it to that level and has enough people with influence to ask for a change, maybe we'll see one.

But speaking of that, if there was someone here who could enlighten us on the C700 workflow with CODEX software and hardware - which was specifically made for those blockbuster flicks IMO - maybe we could have a better understanding of what to expect with the C200.

In other words, if the C700 doesn't have similar access to all of those settings you see with RED and Adobe, why would the C200 have that, you know? IDK.

I once tried to browse through some of these videos to see what was available: https://codex.online/support/tutorials
Click to expand...


I really don't feel that this will be a C700 situation, mostly because more C200 have been sold already than C700s have ever been made. It's going to be a popular camera, because it's so much more accessible. Avid has already completed their implementation of the RAW Light plugin, I don't see why others aren't going to be soon behind.
 
Yea...as I wrote, there's a difference between simply recognizing it and supporting it.

I think everyone expects every major NLE to eventually be able to import the footage, but some people would like a bit more...usually those people have experience with or enjoy a BM/RED-type workflow.
 
IanTheM said:
I really don't feel that this will be a C700 situation, mostly because more C200 have been sold already than C700s have ever been made. It's going to be a popular camera, because it's so much more accessible. Avid has already completed their implementation of the RAW Light plugin, I don't see why others aren't going to be soon behind.
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What kind of RawLite plugin Avid has? Does it have full functionality to change colour temperature etc?
 
brm said:
At 2k are we at 8bit 4:2:2?
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Internal or external recording? Internal is 2k 4:2:0 8-bit @35Mbps. External, is 2048×1080 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit via SDI only, HDMI is only 1080 or UHD. Keep in mind that this 2k is only being output when you are recording Cinema RAW Light to the CFast cards. I don't have a 2K capable recorder that I could hook up to try my 2K hack where the C200 continues to record 2K to the SD cards as long as there is a CFast card in the camera, even if the CFast card is full. Someone with an SDI 2K capable recorder should test this out. My hunch is the camera continues to output 2K out the SDI even if the CFast card is full but until someone tests it, who knows?
 
puredrifting said:
Internal or external recording? Internal is 2k 4:2:0 8-bit @35Mbps. External, is 2048×1080 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit via SDI only, HDMI is only 1080 or UHD. Keep in mind that this 2k is only being output when you are recording Cinema RAW Light to the CFast cards. I don't have a 2K capable recorder that I could hook up to try my 2K hack where the C200 continues to record 2K to the SD cards as long as there is a CFast card in the camera, even if the CFast card is full. Someone with an SDI 2K capable recorder should test this out. My hunch is the camera continues to output 2K out the SDI even if the CFast card is full but until someone tests it, who knows?
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Thank you for the clarification.
So if we want SDI out we need a CFast Card in the camera (even if it's full) Copy. What's the best bang for buck recorder that can capture 2048×1080 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit via the SDI out? Would the Shogun Flame cover it?

The way I see it for the doc filmmaker. Shoot the interviews where you have control over your environment i.e. lit properly, production designed, well staged and composed frame, etc. using the 10 bit UHD. Then grab your field footage with RAW light.

Makes sense to me. Your thoughts?
 
The Atomos' support 2K DCI in very few cameras...mostly the Sonys. The Varicam LT too. I think that's it.

Not sure if the 7Q+ has any support for the C200 right now.

Most recorders will just see the 2K as 1080p.
 
I don't think there is...probably should of said all recorders will just see it as 1080p.
 
Fahnon said:
"...it's Blackmagic that we're all waiting on to properly support it."
Click to expand...

How about ... speculation here ... Canon didn't give BM the info prior to their planning for the Resolve v14.0 and 14.1 releases (evidenced by the fact Canon couldn't even get XF-AVC support into their own camera on release).

BM implemented basic support to open the files, and put full support into their development backlog, because they had their hands full already with a major software release.

Hate to be blunt about it but BM are doing pretty darn good with Resolve. They will get there.
 
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