C300: want prores SDI recordeer for C300M2

L

lealain

Active member
I want a prores recorder like Atomos or odessy to record Prores or RAW.

Prefferably cheap and SSD's for recording.

Prores is very much needed for a better workflow with my macpro, cause MXF is way more heavier on the system then Prores.



I know there's a lot out there, but I don';t need a fancy monitor, I hust want a decent 4K SDI output for my C300M2

Any advice?
 
lealain said:
I want a prores recorder like Atomos or odessy to record Prores or RAW.
Prefferably cheap and SSD's for recording.
Prores is very much needed for a better workflow with my macpro, cause MXF is way more heavier on the system then Prores.
I know there's a lot out there, but I don';t need a fancy monitor, I hust want a decent 4K SDI output for my C300M2
Any advice?
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If you want 4K, there's really only two options: Odyssey7Q+ & Atomos Shogun Inferno.
C300mk2 does not de-bayer 4K, it only outputs 4K as RAW over SDI, so you need a device that does the de-bayering and that can accept Canon's RAW over SDI format.
Odyssey7Q+ works here and now for all signals coming out of the C300mk2. Not sure where Atomos is at for their firmware upgrades. Last time I checked some of the necessary features were still in the promised firmware update stage.
Price wise your cheapest option is probably a used Odyssey7Q (not Plus) with RAW license.

P.S. MXF is just the wrapper, and you can actually get ProRes in .MXF wrapper too, not just .mov
XF-AVC is the compression. Not sure if there's a .mov wrapper available for that codec.
And yes, I have clients too who insist on 4K in ProRes so they can use existing hardware for post.
 
lealain said:
I want a prores recorder like Atomos or odessy to record Prores or RAW.

Prefferably cheap and SSD's for recording.

Prores is very much needed for a better workflow with my macpro, cause MXF is way more heavier on the system then Prores.



I know there's a lot out there, but I don';t need a fancy monitor, I hust want a decent 4K SDI output for my C300M2

Any advice?
Click to expand...

I recently purchased an Atomos Shogun Flame to get 4k Prores from the c300 Mark ii for a job. ALL of the Prores is very noisy. Totally unusable. The in-camera codec is very clean and fortunately for me and the client, perfectly fine.

I've tried a number of different troubleshooting methods. Unsuccessful. Started an open support ticket with Atomos in which I sent them noisy Prores and clean XF-AVC of the same shot. I've received no follow up regarding the footage examples. They are no longer responding to my respectful inquiries as to what may be going on and basically told me to wait for a firmware update that may or may not affect the c300 mark ii and may or may not address the issue.

B & H is currently replacing the unit. Hoping I received a defective unit because that is a workable situation. Regretting I didn't pick up the Odyssey 7Q+ in the first place, but I was seduced by the bright display.

Prores recording difficulties aside, the monitor is very useful.
 
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lealain said:
Prores is very much needed for a better workflow with my macpro, cause MXF is way more heavier on the system then Prores.
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Can't you just use proxies for the edit? Not sure what NLE you use but in Final Cut Pro X you can pretty easily generate proxies and flip back and forth between editing proxy footage and original footage as needed.

Just seems like a good thing to try before investing in an external recorder.
 
Kohl said:
I recently purchased an Atomos Shogun Flame to get 4k Prores from the c300 Mark ii for a job. ALL of the Prores is very noisy. Totally unusable. The in-camera codec is very clean and fortunately for me and the client, perfectly fine.
...
B & H is currently replacing the unit. Hoping I received a defective unit because that is a workable situation. Regretting I didn't pick up the Odyssey 7Q+ in the first place, but I was seduced by the bright display.
Click to expand...

I would like to second your experience with Atomos support as I also do own some of their products. I also find it thoroughly offensive that Atomos is trying to sell 8bit + FRC as 10bit HDR! Nothing wrong with a bright display, though!

Atomos has per spec no 444 12bit, no 2K, no HD 422 downscale/transcode loop out in RAW mode and no indication in the spec sheet if it accepts both Level A and Level B 3G SDI. These are all deal breakers for me as I use those features very often!

I actually use my Odyssey7Q as a LUT box and signal converter to get a Clean Feed to Client more often than I use it as a recorder.
My Zacuto EVF will only accept 3G SDI Level A, so if my ProRes Recorder only accepted Level B, I wouldn't be able to use them at the same time. (Odyssey7Q accepts both Level A & Level B in 422 mode) Or I would have to switch the EVF to HDMI, which comes with it's own set of problems.
And if I record 4K, but want a few clips at 60fps, 2K will match DCI aspect ratio and my Odyssey7Q can record that in ProRes.
Also, if I record 4K the REC OUT on the C300mk2 will be 2048x1080 and I can loop that through the Odyssey7Q and get 1920x1080 slightly letterboxed and signal will work with almost any client monitor as I can select P or PsF on output. Likewise if I record 444 12bit in camera that isn't compatible with many client monitors.

That being said, there's some plusses to the Atomos Shogun Inferno that might be compelling for some: Brighter display, Alexa Mini RAW, potential for 4K HDMI out later on, 12G SDI plugs, etc. But as a companion to a C300mk2 I would go with Odyssey7Q+.
 
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Parrot said:
I would like to second your experience with Atomos support as I also do own some of their products. I also find it thoroughly offensive that Atomos is trying to sell 8bit + FRC as 10bit HDR! Nothing wrong with a bright display, though!

Atomos has per spec no 444 12bit, no 2K, no HD 422 downscale/transcode loop out in RAW mode and no indication in the spec sheet if it accepts both Level A and Level B 3G SDI. These are all deal breakers for me as I use those features very often!

I actually use my Odyssey7Q as a LUT box and signal converter to get a Clean Feed to Client more often than I used it as a recorder.
My Zacuto EVF will only accept 3G SDI Level A, so if my ProRes Recorder only accepted Level B, I wouldn't be able to use them at the same time. (Odyssey7Q accepts both Level A & Level B in 422 mode) Or I would have to switch the EVF to HDMI, which comes with it's own set of problems.
And if I record 4K, but want a few clips at 60fps, 2K will match DCI aspect ratio and my Odyssey7Q can record that in ProRes.
Also, if I record 4K the REC OUT on the C300mk2 will be 2048x1080 and I can loop that through the Odyssey7Q and get 1920x1080 slightly letterboxed and signal will work with almost any client monitor as I can select P or PsF on output. Likewise if I record 444 12bit in camera that isn't compatible with many client monitors.

Just a few of the things I find very useful with the Odyssey7Q and C300mk2 combo!
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Thank you so much for your response and for sharing your experience. Had no idea that the display is actually 8bit + FRC. Thought it to be 10bit. Jeez.

The ability to use the Odyssey as a LUT box and send a clean feed to client monitor is exactly what I'm looking for. Appreciate the good information. Thinking right now about how much I wish I'd had that a few weeks ago, but hey live and learn.

Related to Atomos customer service dropping the ball, fortunately for me, B&H did not. They came through on the return. Picking up an Odyssey 7Q+ to replace the Shogun. Very much look forward to taking advantage of all the functionality mentioned here. Gratitude.
 
Kohl said:
Thank you so much for your response and for sharing your experience. Had no idea that the display is actually 8bit + FRC. Thought it to be 10bit. Jeez.

The ability to use the Odyssey as a LUT box and send a clean feed to client monitor is exactly what I'm looking for. Appreciate the good information. Thinking right now about how much I wish I'd had that a few weeks ago, but hey live and learn.

Related to Atomos customer service dropping the ball, fortunately for me, B&H did not. They came through on the return. Picking up an Odyssey 7Q+ to replace the Shogun. Very much look forward to taking advantage of all the functionality mentioned here. Gratitude.
Click to expand...

Did the new Shogun solve your noisy Prores issue Kohl?
 
puredrifting said:
Did the new Shogun solve your noisy Prores issue Kohl?
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Hey puredrifting. Ended up deciding to return the Shogun. B&H came through with store credit. B&H sure can have some great customer service.

I'm sure there are those who have had a positive experiences with Atomos recorders - a close friend has used the Ninja Blade to great effect. Unfortunately, my experience was not positive. While the person from Atomos seemed very nice, his customer service service response consisted of either not responding to kindly worded emails asking for help or the equivalent of... 'Hey there's a new firmware eventually coming out that may or may not fix the problem. Isn't that exciting!'

He wanted me to retest after the new firmware came out and get back to him with an update. Beta-testing for a company whose product I attempted to use as advertised is not a particularly productive use of my time.

Wish I could give a better report. So it goes.

Going in for an Odyssey 7q+ if/when I'm next asked for Prores. Was just reading in another thread and the Convergent Designs customer service response was the polar opposite of my experience.

Hope that this experience proves to be useful information for someone.
 
Kohl said:
Hey puredrifting. Ended up deciding to return the Shogun. B&H came through with store credit. B&H sure can have some great customer service.

I'm sure there are those who have had a positive experiences with Atomos recorders - a close friend has used the Ninja Blade to great effect. Unfortunately, my experience was not positive. While the person from Atomos seemed very nice, his customer service service response consisted of either not responding to kindly worded emails asking for help or the equivalent of... 'Hey there's a new firmware eventually coming out that may or may not fix the problem. Isn't that exciting!'

He wanted me to retest after the new firmware came out and get back to him with an update. Beta-testing for a company whose product I attempted to use as advertised is not a particularly productive use of my time.

Wish I could give a better report. So it goes.

Going in for an Odyssey 7q+ if/when I'm next asked for Prores. Was just reading in another thread and the Convergent Designs customer service response was the polar opposite of my experience.

Hope that this experience proves to be useful information for someone.
Click to expand...

I've had a Ninja Blade for my C100/300 for the past few years and it has been a good piece of gear. I did have one epiosde of it stopping in the middle of a shoot day, after hours of footage was shot, asking me if I wanted to reformat the drive. I asked Atomos and they blamed it on a defective drive, I asked the drive manufacturer and of course, they blamed the Ninja Blade. I never got to the bottom of that issue but I suspect it was the drive. I also had the screen of my Blade literally melt last year when shooting in the Sahara in day after day temps of 130F. Atomos, after two years and close to out of warranty, replaced the screen for free, so they get credit for that. Dan Keaton and Mitch Gross are both on this board quite often and that will go a long way when I buy my next recorder, I have never seen an Atomos rep on these boards. Operationally, I love the Blade and the quality has been excellent.
 
ChristianMoriarty said:
Buy a new iMac - about the same cost & then you can edit native.
Click to expand...

I understand the new iMacs are great computers for sure. All the same, likely going to custom build a PC in the next few months as that would better serve our needs over the long haul.

puredrifting said:
I've had a Ninja Blade for my C100/300 for the past few years and it has been a good piece of gear. I did have one epiosde of it stopping in the middle of a shoot day, after hours of footage was shot, asking me if I wanted to reformat the drive. I asked Atomos and they blamed it on a defective drive, I asked the drive manufacturer and of course, they blamed the Ninja Blade. I never got to the bottom of that issue but I suspect it was the drive. I also had the screen of my Blade literally melt last year when shooting in the Sahara in day after day temps of 130F. Atomos, after two years and close to out of warranty, replaced the screen for free, so they get credit for that. Dan Keaton and Mitch Gross are both on this board quite often and that will go a long way when I buy my next recorder, I have never seen an Atomos rep on these boards. Operationally, I love the Blade and the quality has been excellent.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your experience. That's great that they replaced the screen. What was it like shooting in 130F? Man.

I actually thought it was some simple mistake I was making in the settings. I'm certainly not above simple mistakes. So I went over the set up several times. All checked out. Then I thought it was the SDI cable causing the issue, so I purchased another SDI rated for 4k/8k and also dropped $100 on the new Atomos HDMI 2.0a. Both cables - noisy footage. Tried three different Sandisk drives - all from the 'approved' list. Noise.

I gotta say though. Ultimately, it's not that big a deal. There are alternatives on the market that provide the same service. I consider all of these products relatively inexpensive. Fortunately, in modern production, with the relatively low cost of high quality cinema cameras such as the c300mkii, there are many different solutions.

Sammydavisjrjr said:
The pix-e5 does prores 4K and is really an amazing recorder.
Click to expand...

Will check it out. Thank you for your input.
 
Kohl said:
Thank you for sharing your experience. That's great that they replaced the screen. What was it like shooting in 130F? Man.
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It was the only time I have had the thermal warning show up on my C100 screen. The Blade would get so hot that you couldn't touch it, no wonder the screen melted. My sound mixer, when he put a wireless receiver on my rig, the cable for the hop to my C100 audio input, the solder holding the cables to the connectors melted so we didn't have camera hop for most of it, we ended up just putting a shotgun on the camera so we would have something. Of course, he was recording production sound to his Sound Devices recorder so it all worked, just more hassle for the editors. My sound guy brought a replacement cable for the hop and it melted too. We asked the production sound mixer, a nice UK chap I had worked with in Africa previously, if he had any more cables. He said that all of his had melted and fallen apart too, he had a soldering iron back at the hotel and he would have to resolder his cables every few days. We found that wrapping the connections with a bit of ripped up t-shirt would slow down the melting. Other than that, all of the gear functioned except the stupid VR "Ball of Go Pros" camera. It had ten Go Pros in an array and most of the shoot, at least one or two of the Go Pros would freeze and not record or power down so our VR efforts were a bust, we only got a couple of usable shots. We had to drink gallons of water per day, you had to drink a water bottle about every ten minutes and you never peed, which was weird. Lots of sunscreen, long sleeved shirts, hats. It was bearable, I like heat better than cold anyday. It was fatiguing.

On another note, I shot a corporate job two years ago using a Pix recorder, they are pretty sweet, really nicely built. Shoot, if they have a Prores 4K model, I would seriously consider that, SD makes good gear.
 
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puredrifting said:
It was the only time I have had the thermal warning show up on my C100 screen. The Blade would get so hot that you couldn't touch it, no wonder the screen melted. My sound mixer, when he put a wireless receiver on my rig, the cable for the hop to my C100 audio input, the solder holding the cables to the connectors melted so we didn't have camera hop for most of it, we ended up just putting a shotgun on the camera so we would have something. Of course, he was recording production sound to his Sound Devices recorder so it all worked, just more hassle for the editors. My sound guy brought a replacement cable for the hop and it melted too. We asked the production sound mixer, a nice UK chap I had worked with in Africa previously, if he had any more cables. He said that all of his had melted and fallen apart too, he had a soldering iron back at the hotel and he would have to resolder his cables every few days. We found that wrapping the connections with a bit of ripped up t-shirt would slow down the melting. Other than that, all of the gear functioned except the stupid VR "Ball of Go Pros" camera. It had ten Go Pros in an array and most of the shoot, at least one or two of the Go Pros would freeze and not record or power down so our VR efforts were a bust, we only got a couple of usable shots. We had to drink gallons of water per day, you had to drink a water bolttle about every ten minutes and you never peed, which was weird. Lots of sunscreen, long sleeved shirts, hats. It was bearable, I like heat better than cold anyday. It was fatiguing.

On another note, I shot a corporate job two years ago using a Pix recorder, they are pretty sweet, really nicely built. Shoot, if they have a Prores 4K model, I would seriously consider that, SD makes good gear.
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Oh man! Thanks for sharing the anecdote. I'm audible laughing and my dog is looking at me like I'm nuts. While I can always use a good laugh, today it is especially appreciated. I'm sure it's more funny in hindsight and from a comfortable distance. I imagine the actual experience would be pretty miserable. Anyway, great story. A welcome respite from the workday.
 
Regarding the noise, did you make sure it wasn't just the nature of the footage. From my experience with clog on other cameras, there is quite a bit of noise reduction on the internally recorded footage that is not output to an external monitor/recorder.
 
klk said:
Yeah, me too. Because it records 4K internally you'd think they'd enable 4K output- other than RAW.
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Another one of those things where it's like Canon asked themselves, "What would everyone want to do with this camera? Yeah, like record into an external recorder for Prores, let's make sure that we send out a 4K spec from SDI that hardly anyone supports so hardly anyone can do that." Can't understand the logic or more accurately, the lack of logic on a few things on the C300 MKII. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of the camera and I love shooting with it. But some of the features it lacks just seem like pure mistakes. Like this one. And the lack of 4K 60P. With just these two additions to the feature set, they could have owned this market segment for years instead of ceding it to Sony so soon. I will buy a C300 MKII over an FS7 but the FS7 feature set is so incredibly superior.
 
cpreston said:
Regarding the noise, did you make sure it wasn't just the nature of the footage. From my experience with clog on other cameras, there is quite a bit of noise reduction on the internally recorded footage that is not output to an external monitor/recorder.
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I suppose it's possible it's just the nature of the footage. Can't confirm definitively one way or the other as I no longer have the unit, do not have access to other units to test against, and am disinclined to spend more time troubleshooting it.

I assume that if this were the case, then after providing test footage for review the response would have been something like - this is the nature of the footage, part of the standard workflow for is to build a specific noise reduction profile for each flavor of clog that you want to record with etc - instead of passing the tests on for further review and then eventually responding that there's a new firmware update coming that may solve the issue.

I'm cool with not knowing as I've moved on.
 
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