Walter Graff on the H1
- Thread starter Nathyn
- Start date
PANA-MAN
Active member
Interesting article, but a bit biased. Not saying that's a bad thing, necessarily we all have our picks. I really like what Canon has done with the H1 sans the price (and that's only because I can't afford it right now 
)
If I had a choice I would indeed buy the Canon.
As always, it boils down to what's right for who, not what camera is the best. It is nigh impossible to say when all of our goals with these cameras is as varied as the cameras themselves. :thumbsup:
) If I had a choice I would indeed buy the Canon.
As always, it boils down to what's right for who, not what camera is the best. It is nigh impossible to say when all of our goals with these cameras is as varied as the cameras themselves. :thumbsup:
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
He is correct.
Walter is very much like a DP version of a car reviewer we have in the UK called Jeremy Clarkson. I like Jeremy, he's cool. He speaks his mind and makes some very cunning and detailed observations that some people tend to completely overlook because they hate his opinionated nature. Fact is that Clarkson sees and drives pretty much every new car ever made. He has a right to be picky and he won't fall for the manufacturer hype. The guy is also tremendously tongue in cheek. Again something that is lost on many people who have no sense of humour. Clarkson is a guy that you either 'get' or you don't.
Now Walter, like Jeremy sees and uses pretty much all the types of cameras out there. If the HVX comes out and represents good value for money you can bet your bottom dollar that he'll be one of the first to point that out.
However at present it just so happens he likes the new Canon. Ever thought that Walter is looking at the whole picture (pun not intended)? He's looking at the quality, ease of use, and the value for money. But then he might have different requirements in a camera than you. Quite possibly Walter will ony be using the H1 if he has to. Not as a primary camera. Perhaps he doesn't want to faff around changing over P2 cards all the time.
Whatever the reasons when the HVX200 comes out you'll have your opportunity to put the case for that camera right here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Walter is very much like a DP version of a car reviewer we have in the UK called Jeremy Clarkson. I like Jeremy, he's cool. He speaks his mind and makes some very cunning and detailed observations that some people tend to completely overlook because they hate his opinionated nature. Fact is that Clarkson sees and drives pretty much every new car ever made. He has a right to be picky and he won't fall for the manufacturer hype. The guy is also tremendously tongue in cheek. Again something that is lost on many people who have no sense of humour. Clarkson is a guy that you either 'get' or you don't.
Now Walter, like Jeremy sees and uses pretty much all the types of cameras out there. If the HVX comes out and represents good value for money you can bet your bottom dollar that he'll be one of the first to point that out.
However at present it just so happens he likes the new Canon. Ever thought that Walter is looking at the whole picture (pun not intended)? He's looking at the quality, ease of use, and the value for money. But then he might have different requirements in a camera than you. Quite possibly Walter will ony be using the H1 if he has to. Not as a primary camera. Perhaps he doesn't want to faff around changing over P2 cards all the time.
Whatever the reasons when the HVX200 comes out you'll have your opportunity to put the case for that camera right here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Sean Michael
Well-known member
Jeremy Clarkson? I'll never forgive him for that episode in which he destroyed a vintage Porsche 911. :angry:
I look forward to the H1 vs. HVX shootout. Hard to say what will win over the masses, but it seems Panasonic is betting quite heavily on P2. It's got an uphill battle on that front.
I look forward to the H1 vs. HVX shootout. Hard to say what will win over the masses, but it seems Panasonic is betting quite heavily on P2. It's got an uphill battle on that front.
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
Vintage 911? Clarkson loves the 911. Don't remember that one. Do you mean that piece of rubbish that he bought that leaked oil and water everywhere when they challenged each other to buy a Porsche for under UKP1k?
Panasonic has taken a gamble that the prices of P2 technology will fall fast enough for people to start using their system rather than the competition. They are banking on establishing themselves as THE non linear format by introducing it this early so that NLE vendors and production companies will accept footage shot on P2 as a matter of course.
I don't think P2 is a mistake. I just think its release has been forced onto the market just because it can be done. My big question for Panasonic is why they released a format that can record such little amounts of footage at a time. I have tried to reason with the idea over and over, but having to offload footage continuously just seems like an unneccesary evil. Its an extra thing to think about in a day and age when manufacturers should be reducing foibles such as this, not adding them. You wouldn't be happy if tapes were very short and expensive, and had to keep transferring the footage to a hard drive. So why accept this? The speed of file access? Why not just make the camera with a built in firestore and be done with it. After all that seems to be what most people here will be doing!
Panasonic might have put all their eggs in one basket with P2. With regards to the HVX specifically I hope that they get the DVCproHD codec acceptability on PC NLE's sorted pretty quickly. Nothing will kill this thing faster than a complete lack of software support (ie software that most of the people in these forums use).
Panasonic has taken a gamble that the prices of P2 technology will fall fast enough for people to start using their system rather than the competition. They are banking on establishing themselves as THE non linear format by introducing it this early so that NLE vendors and production companies will accept footage shot on P2 as a matter of course.
I don't think P2 is a mistake. I just think its release has been forced onto the market just because it can be done. My big question for Panasonic is why they released a format that can record such little amounts of footage at a time. I have tried to reason with the idea over and over, but having to offload footage continuously just seems like an unneccesary evil. Its an extra thing to think about in a day and age when manufacturers should be reducing foibles such as this, not adding them. You wouldn't be happy if tapes were very short and expensive, and had to keep transferring the footage to a hard drive. So why accept this? The speed of file access? Why not just make the camera with a built in firestore and be done with it. After all that seems to be what most people here will be doing!
Panasonic might have put all their eggs in one basket with P2. With regards to the HVX specifically I hope that they get the DVCproHD codec acceptability on PC NLE's sorted pretty quickly. Nothing will kill this thing faster than a complete lack of software support (ie software that most of the people in these forums use).
Barry_Green
Moderator
It's only little today, and basically they could not have made the camera at this price point had they used tape. P2 was the only way to do it.Simon Wyndham said:
Because a hard drive is not a reliable-enough solution for them to put their name on. They'll let someone else do it, sure -- Focus can be the one producing the hard disk if they want, but Jan said at NAB that they experimented with hard disks, optical disks, everything -- and came to the conclusion that the only technology that they were satisfied with from a reliability standpoint was solid-state.
That's specifically where Panasonic is ahead of the game. They lined up software support long before the camera was even announced. Avid, FCP and Canopus already have full integration. Heck, Avid doesn't even have HDV support on the market yet (do they?) but Express Pro HD works with the HVX files right now.
So options exist. It'd be a whole lot nicer if there was a generic codec out there so those of us on Vegas, and those on Premiere Pro, could count on native support. But even for those, the Avid codec pack will work (just not as well as it could). It's not like they're springing a total unknown format on the market, it's probably got more established editing support than any other new format in history.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Graff makes one good point. I'd really like to know how many people who hate HDV have actually worked with it and have seen it from these new cameras. The HD100 images I saw looked really nice and once JVC gets it's act together I think it will be pretty hot, but I think the HVX will be the one for me.
-Nate
-Nate
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Nathyn said:
But nobody's seen the HDV footage from this camera either. HD-SDI uncompressed out from this camera is not what most folks will be using. Even Canon used DVC-PRO HD to show off their camera. I want to see footage from production cameras compared from aquisiton, through editing, color correction and then output to tape or IT solution.
I just think that it is way to early to make the decision which of these cameras meet my needs.
Barry_Green
Moderator
From the XL H1? Sure they have. Dozens of clips available for download on DVInfo.net...David G. Smith said:
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Barry_Green said:
Sorry, I thought that the only thing seen was from the RESfest footage.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, Canon gave Kaku Ito a camera for the weekend, he shot a few dozen clips and uploaded them to DVInfo.net...
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
How did it look?Barry_Green said:
Barry_Green
Moderator
Difficult to judge. Kaku's not a professional cameraman, and he admits that. A lot of the footage is blown out, so it's hard to know whether that was inexperience, overexposure, or limited latitude. A lot of it is sharp sharp sharp, and little to no chromatic aberrations to speak of. But some of it just looks like a mush too, like the grass detail in the front of the black labrador clip.
I thought overall it looked like pretty good HDV. It looked like a higher-res XL2, pretty much. But it's way early to judge anything, obviously, because of the circumstances, the shooter's unfamiliarity with the camera, etc.
I thought overall it looked like pretty good HDV. It looked like a higher-res XL2, pretty much. But it's way early to judge anything, obviously, because of the circumstances, the shooter's unfamiliarity with the camera, etc.
Gibby
Red Savant
Barry_Green said:
Actually, Avid Express Pro (PC only) is currently shipping with native 1080 and 720 HDV support.
Link: http://www.avid.com/products/hdv.asp
Gibby
www.cut4.tv
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
Barry_Green said:
Exactly. So my thinking is why the rush to release something like this when the price of the solid state memory isn't at a stage where the sorts of people who want to use this camera can more readily afford it? I'm not totally clear on who the camera is aimed at as a result.
Barry_Green said:
Yes, I know that. But I was jokingly referring to the fact that from the impression I get from these boards, hardly anyone will be using the P2, and instead using the Firestore when it comes out the majority of the time. Hence my reasoning that despite a supposed lack of reliability they might as well just put a hard drive in there instead because it looks like most here won't be using the P2 option anyway!
Barry_Green said:
Exactly. Never mind Avid and Canopus etc. The smaller guys need support too. In fact I know someone in Kenya who currently does work for the BBC and edits on Vegas 6. I would imagine a huge number of people who currently use the DVX and who want to upgrade to the HVX would like to keep their current editing software.
Simon Wyndham said:Yes, I know that. But I was jokingly referring to the fact that from the impression I get from these boards, hardly anyone will be using the P2, and instead using the Firestore when it comes out the majority of the time. Hence my reasoning that despite a supposed lack of reliability they might as well just put a hard drive in there instead because it looks like most here won't be using the P2 option anyway!
Possibly.
But P2 size and price will fall.
When they do, the HVX will not then have to be redesigned to accommodate it.
Landon D. Parks
Member
Who sais most will be using the Firestore? If I get the camera, I'll be using P2.... Hell, an DVCPRO HD version of the Firestore is not do out till when? early next year?
The camera ships this December.... So your either #1: gonna be using P2 cards (at least till firestore gets here), #2: Gonna be using just the MiniDV drive (Sorry, no DVCPRO 50 or HD available on that!) or #3: Just wait on the camera or leave it on your shelf until the firestore comes out.
Option #1 suits me just fine...
I'm the type who is young, and I want to train myself as much as possible to work in a "Film Type" enviroment... Thats one thing I never did like about video and the idea of working with it, that it was always "Point and shoot" till the sun goes down.... I think It will be nice to have to stop after 18 minutes and unload your P2 cards, not only will it give you time to think about your next scene, and allow you to talk to your actors (to get a better performance), etc.
I think thats one of the reasons a lot of films shot in video suck and films shot in film are pretty good... Because film allows you to connect with your actors and crew and to better understand the script... With video you are constantly shooting, because you can, therefore your "all shoot, and no direct".
Am I the only one who notices how, even Indie films shot on film tend to be better than those shot on videoTAPE? There are of course the exceptions, but then again those exceptions are probly use to working in film anyways, and will stop shooting long enough to direct reguardless of if the tape is out or not.
Again, I think film teaches you that you cant go on forever, and that there comes a point where you have to get it or leave it, At which you are gonna be much more likly to rehears more and connect with your actors more so that you dont have to leave it, therefore creating a better performance and a better picture in general.
Just my $0.02
The camera ships this December.... So your either #1: gonna be using P2 cards (at least till firestore gets here), #2: Gonna be using just the MiniDV drive (Sorry, no DVCPRO 50 or HD available on that!) or #3: Just wait on the camera or leave it on your shelf until the firestore comes out.
Option #1 suits me just fine...
I'm the type who is young, and I want to train myself as much as possible to work in a "Film Type" enviroment... Thats one thing I never did like about video and the idea of working with it, that it was always "Point and shoot" till the sun goes down.... I think It will be nice to have to stop after 18 minutes and unload your P2 cards, not only will it give you time to think about your next scene, and allow you to talk to your actors (to get a better performance), etc.
I think thats one of the reasons a lot of films shot in video suck and films shot in film are pretty good... Because film allows you to connect with your actors and crew and to better understand the script... With video you are constantly shooting, because you can, therefore your "all shoot, and no direct".
Am I the only one who notices how, even Indie films shot on film tend to be better than those shot on videoTAPE? There are of course the exceptions, but then again those exceptions are probly use to working in film anyways, and will stop shooting long enough to direct reguardless of if the tape is out or not.
Again, I think film teaches you that you cant go on forever, and that there comes a point where you have to get it or leave it, At which you are gonna be much more likly to rehears more and connect with your actors more so that you dont have to leave it, therefore creating a better performance and a better picture in general.
Just my $0.02