Wait for next generation of cameras?

P

Paper_bag

Active member
Random thought/rant. Is anyone else (like me) dissatisfied for one reason or another with all the crop of current and upcoming cameras, and thinking about making do with your existing gear till 2014/2015?

"I wish it just had x".

A BMC with a larger sensor, a C300 with 1080p slow mo and better bit depth, an FS700 with onboard 50mb/s codec, a KineRAW with higher dynamic range, a Miro with a lower pricetag...

The toys are amazing now compared to 5, 10 years ago. But don't they all need just that little something extra?
 
Last edited:
I think there is some value in that

The BMC may or may not break down a few walls

I was considering the F3 FS100 choice a year ago fully aware that..
-The F3 is better
-I dont have 50mbs clients
-I do have a client who will not use dual sound
-I think non raw acquisition is a bit poo, really I want a raw cam


I bought the FS100 - it was the cheapest camera that met my 'minimum spec' (what I need for work) of S35+XLR sound
Any money I didnt spend on the F3 is safely tucked away in the 'raw shooter fund', but I can still shoot meeting my clients requirements

I think one should consider 'camera life'

I mean my 7d had a 'life' of about 3 months I got it for 25p and knew it missed XLR
Within months the FS100 offered XLR and my 5d was given 25p!

If Id bought an F3 it would have needed a 4-5 year life in my business - a specific production could pay it off in a month

So the F3 had a 5 year price and a 2 year quality

bla bla - make your own choices depending on your businesss

but dont not shoot because you are awiting this or that

the Fs100, AF100, GH2 etc are amazing and hitting the used market

there is no reason not to shoot

The C100 is however pretty cool, because it offers the 'minimum spec' of many corporate wedding people..
S35
XLR
ND
The C300 adds 50 MBs and Proper wires - so that is cool too

I think they are both 'buy' cameras if you dont harbour some raw dream

S
 
Last edited:
Paper_bag said:
The toys are amazing now compared to 5, 10 years ago. But don't they all need just that little something extra?
Click to expand...

If you spend your life waiting for that one camera that they finally get "right", that finally has everything you want... you'll never buy a camera. If you have a camera that works for you, assuming you're not still shooting standard def, why get something else? Don't buy until you have to, or can afford to. And when you need to, get the one that makes the most sense for your workflow, make it work for you, and don't worry as much about what it doesn't have.
 
I think spending a life not buying a camera is of course unwise.

The harder choice is when to burden yourself with a camera you must stick with for 3-5 years

In my business that would be an F3/C300 at the moment

I dont think they are 'worth it' (for my business) with that time frame in mind and therefore Im giving them a mis and waiting

The FS100/Af100 are wonderful shooters to own while you wait and the hit wont be too bad even if they are moved on for 30% of the new value when the right camera comes along

S
 
Paper_bag said:
Random thought/rant. Is anyone else (like me) dissatisfied for one reason or another with all the crop of current and upcoming cameras, and thinking about making do with your existing gear till 2014/2015?
Click to expand...

Nope. I don't think that way. My thought is that I wait until I actually need new equipment (as opposed to wanting it), then I research the market and buy the biggest bang for my buck at that point in time. Then I learn that equipment and use it. I don't buy anything else until I want to do something that I can't do with my existing equipment.

How the equipment evolves in the times between my purchasing decisions is all but meaningless to me. I'm only peripherally aware of the equipment markets, just enough to know what other people are talking about. IOW, I know what the DSLR craze is about, even though I don't own one and I'm not very interested in owning one. Until I have a need for one. So until I need one, I'm not interested enough to know the detailed specs of any of them. So I don't have the dissatisfaction that you do. ;-)
 
...Yes, the film-makers of all of the DVX-100 films that were nominated for Academy Awards or nominated and won at Sundance should have just waited for something better.
 
Which is fine if your business is not becoming behind the times producing dated looks and you are happy with your camera operating it on a day to day basis.

The cameras I owned before the FS100 (DLSRs,EX1 )were blatantly innapropriate for what I was trying to do with them and a daily frustration

Im all for sticking not twisting. BTW

S
 
I mean Mr Bag - what dont you like about you current camera.

I was very clear about my 5d..
Dual sound
30p
moiree
crappy monitor res.
Crappy HDMI lead

and my 7d..
Dual sound
Moire
Crappy HDMI lead
I hated them all, moiree the least.

and my EX1 looked too corporate

The Fs100 simply cured those problems

If you cant list the problems with your current camera, keep shooting !

S
 
Paper_bag said:
Random thought/rant. Is anyone else (like me) dissatisfied for one reason or another with all the crop of current and upcoming cameras, and thinking about making do with your existing gear till 2014/2015?

"I wish it just had x".

A BMC with a larger sensor, a C300 with 1080p slow mo and better bit depth, an FS700 with onboard 50mb/s codec, a KineRAW with higher dynamic range, a Miro with a lower pricetag...

The toys are amazing now compared to 5, 10 years ago. But don't they all need just that little something extra?
Click to expand...

If you want to create, you'll go out and create with what you've got available to you.

If you don't want to create, what's the point of having a camera at all?
 
Quick run through digital history

Early days we had this and this wasnt that good at this or that.

Then we had this and this was starting to do this very well and started to move us closer to that.

Then we had this with a bit more of that, but it was a bit of a painful that.

Then we had this which did this extremely well and gave a good show at that. And we had that which was really starting to do that very well. Both burned a huge hole in your pocket so, suddenly came a ? which did that well in the eyes of many or in the eyes of many did not. Was pretty horrible for doing this.

Now we have many of this which is amazing at this. Now we have many of that which are amazing at that. Both at incredibly good price points.

Make sense? :P

If your this or that does exactly what you need it to do for this or that and the new this or that coming out now don't change it for you - then hold onto your this or that as new this or that's dont change anything for you.

As per David above if you're waiting for something you feel will fulfil your ability - then there'll always be new this or thats which make you wonder exactly what this or that is whereas you need to be the one to decide personally what this or that is for you.

I just woke up.
 
The thing is cameras are not 'there' yet but close.

You may disagree, or maybe the C300 and 500 are 'there'

But the F3, no onboard 'bbc' codec
Fs100(no ND)/700 marginal colours.. maybe
All DSLRs crappy connections
BMC - not for sale/weird chip size
Epic/F65 - thank you but I cant afford
C100 - unknown codec medium crappy connections

In stills we went through this,
Nikon D1 - too low res 'crop sensor'
Kodak SLRn slow flash synch, crap ISOs
Nikon D2 crop sensor, too low res
Nikon D3 - just bloody wonderful

NIkon D4 - dont even know the specs! my D3 is great and has been serving me for years.

Ive not bought another camera since

But the lesson is 'they do get there'

Do you buy the 'd1 and D2'? the d4, maybe - depends on the business - but we bought them in full knowledge of the 'faults' and a lot of money it cost too- but the business really left no options

BTW I had a very specific bar with digital stills cameras.. "to get as good as Nikon F4 with a roll of 800 film" - thats what I wanted and thats where Ive stopped - now I have it ive totally moved on from buying stills gear or thinking about it

S
 
Last edited:
morgan_moore said:
The thing is cameras are not 'there' yet but close.
Click to expand...

...But the video standards that you are judging the cameras on will keep increasing ( i.e. 4K, 8K, 10-bit, 12-bit, 14-bit, etc... ), so even 10 years from now you are still going to be saying "the cameras are not there yet".
 
The cameras are there. Nothing's perfect. Nothing will ever be perfect.

If you're content to wait for the "perfect" camera, then you don't have a burning desire to do something. And if you don't have a burning desire to do something, chances are, you aren't going to use the "perfect" camera to anything like its potential anyway.

The "perfect" camera isn't for occasional hobbyists. The "perfect" camera is for those who want to do serious things. And (broken record here) if you want to do serious things, you'll get out and do them without waiting.
 
Bruce Watson said:
Nope. I don't think that way. My thought is that I wait until I actually need new equipment (as opposed to wanting it), then I research the market and buy the biggest bang for my buck at that point in time. Then I learn that equipment and use it. I don't buy anything else until I want to do something that I can't do with my existing equipment.

How the equipment evolves in the times between my purchasing decisions is all but meaningless to me. I'm only peripherally aware of the equipment markets, just enough to know what other people are talking about. IOW, I know what the DSLR craze is about, even though I don't own one and I'm not very interested in owning one. Until I have a need for one. So until I need one, I'm not interested enough to know the detailed specs of any of them. So I don't have the dissatisfaction that you do. ;-)
Click to expand...

Two thoughts in reply.

1. People often say, "Don't upgrade till you need to", but I don't know if the line between "need" and "want" is always clear-cut.

For example: a limitation that I run into shooting weddings on DSLRs: recording times drive me mad. Now, I can get by with my current cameras for the foreseeable future. But there's always the real danger of missing a shot. Is the desire to upgrade my cameras a want, or a need?

2. I guess I do worry about how tech involves between camera models. I remember, for instance, that many people were annoyed when the HPX370 came out and they'd invested in an HPX300 just a few months prior. If, by waiting just a little bit longer, you get a better bang for your buck, and a better camera to be stuck with for a few years, doesn't it make more sense to wait?

On the other hand, people's experiences in waiting for the Scarlet is a good lesson...
 
TheDingo said:
...But the video standards that you are judging the cameras on will keep increasing ( i.e. 4K, 8K, 10-bit, 12-bit, 14-bit, etc... ), so even 10 years from now you are still going to be saying "the cameras are not there yet".
Click to expand...

No that is not true at all, I said stillswise my image standard is 'a roll of (35mm) 800 film' (something I worked with for 10 years before the backwards step to early digital)
Also the nikon F4 body - a famous brick s*%t house build and a matched lens set - I still use my 1990 20-35 for example - no doubt a nanocrystalED-IF-G exists - I dont even know or care.
Stillswise the nikon D3 matches that experience, good rolloff at the top, and clean at that speed and reasonable res and a chip size that matches its lens set and wonderful colour - it took nikon three generations.
Stillswise the nikon D4 is here, exceeding 800 whatever, I dont really care.
Also there are MF cameras the '4k' eqivielent, again, I dont really care,
My still camera is 'there' and well superceded by now - more 'res' available in phones no doubt
Shooting stills on film I never upgraded once (as a professional - I had some crap as a student)

Video my standard would by 2.5k raw (and a prores option) , good to 800, nice roll off and delivering a clean 1080 once you have corrected a horizon or trimmed a boom out of shot.
Also Id like no sh tty connections, lack of TC, ND and all the other stuff that will f ck you up on a job. (all available in the AF 100 for peanuts)
Im clear on those specs too.

I said the C300/500 are likely close to 'there' , just I find them as ergonomic as a christmas tree and outside my price range, built like fisher price toys, not to mention the un-focusable glass, 90% of which was designed for a different sensor size making it flarey heavy overpriced and under sped

An S35 BMC mixed with a C300 box would be 'there'

Im sure a lot of ENG cameras are 'there' too and of course the Alexa Epic and maybe Scarlet

When you have worked with cameras that are 'there' from the ergonomics to the image and connectivity you just know it - and the current batch of sub £10k cams are all lacking by a generation, like the nikon D2x (a POS if you ever tried it)

If you look at stills digital history its pretty similar, just three years a head, the corporates bring out flawed product, a few far siders deliver the real deal in a wonky package with wonko firmware and s*%t customer support at crazy prices, then two years after that the corporates get it toghether..

Ive bought two 16mp stills cameras in my time the kodak pro back and the Nex5n for 1/10th of the price a few years later - it gives perspective, and also an insight into the financial sustainability of the companies that make them

S
 
Last edited:
morgan_moore said:
Video my standard would by 2.5k raw (and a prores option) , good to 800, nice roll off and delivering a clean 1080 once you have corrected a horizon or trimmed a boom out of shot.
Click to expand...

I can see this being the norm for prosumer cameras within the next 5 years, and I'm sure a 2nd or 3rd generation BMC will help push other manufactures in this direction.
 
I think the glut of options is making people over analyze each camera. Whenever I feel my head spinning I ground myself by remembering that "28 Days Later" and "Open Water" both had theatrical runs and both were shot in SD (hell, the doc in my sig was shot in SD and got distribution less than a year ago).

Instead of focusing on what the camera doesn't have focus on what it does have and select the one that closet meets your requirements.
 
Paper_bag said:
Random thought/rant. Is anyone else (like me) dissatisfied for one reason or another with all the crop of current and upcoming cameras, and thinking about making do with your existing gear till 2014/2015?
Click to expand...

YES! That would be me! I'm not spending a ton of cash on some camera gear and accessories for something that's going to go out of date soon. I am sticking with the bare minimum that I need as a director and content to rent as needed for now.

1. Digital skintones still aren't as good as film. I damn well hope that someone fixes this - and whoever does... I'm buying their camera!

2. You know that when they go 4K... they're going to go 50/60p too if possible. The engineers who make the cameras aren't going to be happy with all of that 4K detail being lost in motion blur. I'm sure we could happily be shooting at 24fps... HOWEVER having the option of 4K, 50/60p will rock.

3. The price / performance war has just begun... I'm sure GoPro didn't buy CineForm just for fun. Blackmagic is notorious for pushing out quick updates without warning. RED has their Dragon sensor. Arri must have a high-res sensor coming soon. Apertus open source camera. Panasonic high-end 4K. Chinese RAW cameras. Etc etc etc!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top