vND Suggestions? - 72mm Sony 20-70

jmone

jmone

Well-known member
Wow I'm getting a lot of issues using my FX6 here in Turkey and Greece under the general "no professional" equipment argument. A7Siii with the 20-70 does not get a 2nd look. Only issue is it lacks a vND so is kinda limited in the bright sunshine.

Any suggestions for a "good" vND that I can attach and leave on the 72mm 20-70? evND? I know little on the subject except seeing polarised reviews on various models so I thought I'd ask!
 
I would consider getting a 3 and a six stop solid. Super cheap , sometime you wont get the iris of your desires but no funny colours?
 
I've actually been a fan of my Nisi Swift True Color Variable ND.

Why?

Well, it only does 1-5 stops with the first filter, and then if you want to increase the ND you have to add a separate 4 stop ND on top of it. At a glance it might seem annoying to have to add an extra filter, but I've found it eliminates the "X pattern" you can get at the higher stops.

The extra 4 stop ND just pushes on the front, you don't have to thread it on, so it's quick. And typically once I've found my stop that I'm shooting at I know what ND I'm going to need so I'm not constantly pulling it on or off.

Lots of options out there, but that's my personal experience.
 
DustinSchmidt said:
I've actually been a fan of my Nisi Swift True Color Variable ND.

Why?

Well, it only does 1-5 stops with the first filter, and then if you want to increase the ND you have to add a separate 4 stop ND on top of it. At a glance it might seem annoying to have to add an extra filter, but I've found it eliminates the "X pattern" you can get at the higher stops.

The extra 4 stop ND just pushes on the front, you don't have to thread it on, so it's quick. And typically once I've found my stop that I'm shooting at I know what ND I'm going to need so I'm not constantly pulling it on or off.

Lots of options out there, but that's my personal experience.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think the 1-5 + 4 life might be workable. Re NiSi, do you have their jetmag system/do you also have their matte box?

@jmone with a lot of the filters with larger ranges, they're sort of just paper ranges, with the X pattern Dustin mentions making some of the denser stops unusable, or sizeable colour shifts, which can likely be corrected in post, but still a shift to consider, which is a non starter for some.

NiSi reccommends the 1-5 vario plus 4 stop when needed, giving either 1-5 or 5-9 range between the two filters.

NiSi seems to be a good brand and I'm currently looking into their different options (they have various circular vari-NDs, as well as matte box options) https://nisifilters.com.au/shop/jetmag-pro/jetmag-pro-true-color-variable-nd-1-5-stops/
(website is hard to read IMO).
 
rob norton said:
Yeah I think the 1-5 + 4 life might be workable. Re NiSi, do you have their jetmag system/do you also have their matte box?
Click to expand...
I don't have the jetmag system, just the Nisi Swift filters. I'd imagine that the difference is probably in the way the system works though, and the glass/filters would be the same?

I use a Bright Tangerine Misfit Atom and Misfit Kick for my matte boxes at the moment. I'm not familiar with any of Nisi 's standard matte box options. Nowadays I do think you can get pretty serviceable matte boxes from a lot of different companies, as long as it takes standard 4x5.65 filters then it can probably get the job done.
 
Thanks for the tips. I'm looking to keep the look of the camera "normal" to not attract attention like the FX6 gets (so not matt boxs). I saw there was an announcement from the evND vendor of an add on (same as the one Sony uses?) but can't find a retail product.
 
jmone said:
Thanks for the tips. I'm looking to keep the look of the camera "normal" to not attract attention like the FX6 gets (so not matt boxs). I saw there was an announcement from the evND vendor of an add on (same as the one Sony uses?) but can't find a retail product.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of any front/screw-on filters that are eND, except for a new product being sold by Kippertie. However, their "front mounted" eND is for a standard matte box and isn't available as of yet.


Kippertie also has their new LCminiND, which is an eND system, but you'd of course have to be adapting lenses to make it work since you can't put anything between the Sony e-mount and a Sony e-mount lens like the 20-70.
 
Back in Oz, and checked out the Nisi Swift True Color Variable ND system. I noticed on the product page "We recommend focal lengths of 35mm and longer with our variable ND range." so I pinged them a Q on this and got back "the recommendation for using the VND with longer focal lengths is due to the nature of variable ND filters, which are made from two polarisers. Polarisers cannot fully polarise the entire field of view on wide-angle lenses, which is a limitation of physics applicable to all VNDs and all brands. We aim to be transparent about this to help you make an informed decision.

Given the lens I want to use it on is the 20-70, it sounds like I may be better with fixed ND?
 
Maybe first try a very cheap variable filter, like one of the $10-$15 ones, with a step ring (your lens' size to a larger diameter, so the filter would be that larger size), and see how it behaves on your lens at the wider range.
 
jmone said:
Back in Oz, and checked out the Nisi Swift True Color Variable ND system. I noticed on the product page "We recommend focal lengths of 35mm and longer with our variable ND range." so I pinged them a Q on this and got back "the recommendation for using the VND with longer focal lengths is due to the nature of variable ND filters, which are made from two polarisers. Polarisers cannot fully polarise the entire field of view on wide-angle lenses, which is a limitation of physics applicable to all VNDs and all brands. We aim to be transparent about this to help you make an informed decision.

Given the lens I want to use it on is the 20-70, it sounds like I may be better with fixed ND?
Click to expand...
Given that NiSi 1-9 stops means carrying the 1-5 filter and 4 stop filter, if matching the same number of filters, then maybe something like a solid 4 and solid 8 would be a workable compromise? But if an additional filter means a small filter pouch, then you might as well go with something like a 2/4/6/8 and be covered.

I'm going through this myself, with plans to buy a C50 with no ND and am figuring out the ND situation. I'm not opposed to solid ND at all, and likely might end up picking up both types for different situations, since they're all just tools and you can pick and choose for the job accordingly.

Thanks for the heads up on the nisi variable ND. But like NorBro says maybe it won't even bother you.
 
I just tested a mates Maven brand fixed ND Filter set in some bright Aussie Sun. He has the 1/8th (3Stop) and 1/64th (6 Stop). the 1/8th was a bit to weak blowing out past F22 on bright white objects, and the 1/64th too strong for shadows. Even being lazy, I could shoot indoors with it on using High Base. Sure the Iris will be varying but I think a 1/16th (4Stop) will work well as a general rule. I do like how you can attach and leave on the mag ring then just add/remove the filter. I did not see any issues with colours or vignetting (incl no noticeable vignetting with the two filters stacked). One big bonus for me is you can still use the original lens hood. I did also speak again with NiSi who tried to talk me out of their Swift (push on system) in favour of their JetMag Pro one, but that requires a 72mm-82Mag adapter so it would not look so "stock" and I could not use the existing lens hood.

Anyway, unless there are other ideas, I think I'll get the Maven.

Thanks
Nathan

PS - Ideally, I'd get trade both the FX6 and A7Siii for a "boring looking" mirrorless body that had eVND.
 
jmone said:
I just tested a mates Maven brand fixed ND Filter set in some bright Aussie Sun. He has the 1/8th (3Stop) and 1/64th (6 Stop). the 1/8th was a bit to weak blowing out past F22 on bright white objects, and the 1/64th too strong for shadows. Even being lazy, I could shoot indoors with it on using High Base. Sure the Iris will be varying but I think a 1/16th (4Stop) will work well as a general rule. I do like how you can attach and leave on the mag ring then just add/remove the filter. I did not see any issues with colours or vignetting (incl no noticeable vignetting with the two filters stacked). One big bonus for me is you can still use the original lens hood. I did also speak again with NiSi who tried to talk me out of their Swift (push on system) in favour of their JetMag Pro one, but that requires a 72mm-82Mag adapter so it would not look so "stock" and I could not use the existing lens hood.

Anyway, unless there are other ideas, I think I'll get the Maven.

Thanks
Nathan

PS - Ideally, I'd get trade both the FX6 and A7Siii for a "boring looking" mirrorless body that had eVND.
Click to expand...
Yeah the no lens hood compatibility is a problem IMO. Even though stills lens hoods (other than deep telephoto hoods) leave a lot to be desired compared to matte boxes, there are still many instances where it'd still take the edge off. It's ridiculous on YT seeing people push a filtration system, pretending like it's not an issue having no lens hood. I'm surprised there aren't lens hoods that have slits for a pin to go through that controls the vari-ND, just like a drop in iris on a source 4 light.

Does this exist?

Re jetmag pro, it looks like it's only available in 82mm so you have to step up to it, at which point I THINK I’d rather smaller filters, even if not vari-ND. It seems like a shame to have a wider diameter than what a small lens is providing, especially if you’re paying a decent amount for the lens to have such a small footprint.
 
FWIW - They also expanded on why these sort of VND don't work well at wider apertures, you end up with uneven patches of reduction across the image due to varying angles of the light. Soft of like vignetting but it is not even.
 
NorBro said:
Maybe first try a very cheap variable filter, like one of the $10-$15 ones, with a step ring (your lens' size to a larger diameter, so the filter would be that larger size), and see how it behaves on your lens at the wider range.
Click to expand...
Talking about cheap solutions. I first used Cokin Filters for stills back in the '80s when they first came out. When I first started to experiment with mirrorless cameras some years ago, I really missed the no NDs thing when it came to video. I kept thinking about my experiences with the Cokin filter sets.

To cut a long story short, a few years ago I purchased some very cheap 'Chinese' knock-off Cokin style NDs, Grad NDs and Color Grad NDs. Don't laugh. They work very well. The system allows you to stack filters. I quite often use a solid ND in one slot and a Graduated ND in another slot. No appreciable quality loss with 50MP stills and none that I can see with video. Minimal size, compact, flexible, rotatable holder pretty quick to work with and all pack into a space about the same size as my two 95 mm VNDs. The Cokin knock-off set I purchased has 9 x Adapter Rings (49/52/55/58/62/67/72/77/82mm) so fits a pretty wide range of lenses. Later, I purchased a cheap set of colored grads. I think I've only used the blue and tobacco colored ones. But again cheap and they worked. All kept clean with a liquid/microfiber 100 mm rectangular LCD screen cleaner. As seen in one of the attached JPGs.

Chris Young

https://short-url.org/1d8be
 

Attachments

  • Cokin 3 comp.jpg
    Cokin 3 comp.jpg
    134.3 KB · Views: 5
  • Filter set.jpg
    Filter set.jpg
    55.6 KB · Views: 4
jmone said:
Back in Oz, and checked out the Nisi Swift True Color Variable ND system. I noticed on the product page "We recommend focal lengths of 35mm and longer with our variable ND range." so I pinged them a Q on this and got back "the recommendation for using the VND with longer focal lengths is due to the nature of variable ND filters, which are made from two polarisers. Polarisers cannot fully polarise the entire field of view on wide-angle lenses, which is a limitation of physics applicable to all VNDs and all brands. We aim to be transparent about this to help you make an informed decision.

Given the lens I want to use it on is the 20-70, it sounds like I may be better with fixed ND?
Click to expand...
Yes, at wider focal lengths you will get vignetting. NISI rep repeated this to me too at BILD. At higher ND values color cast. After years of VND I went to fixed ND and I'm happier.
 
I've loaded my cart with a 2, 4, 10 fixed ND (and all the extra 'bits') waiting for the sales as I'm in no rush. The 2 and 4 can be combined for a 6 so between the three strengths I should have a good set of options for normal daylight filming in a fairly minimal package. The 10 is for doing S&Q (slow shutter) work.
 
scorsesefan said:
Yes, at wider focal lengths you will get vignetting. NISI rep repeated this to me too at BILD. At higher ND values color cast. After years of VND I went to fixed ND and I'm happier.
Click to expand...
What NDs do you use?

@cyvideo with Canon's 2/4/6/8/10 ND filter system, it just dawned on me the 8/10 could just be 6+2 and a 6+4? Or would there actually be 8 and 10 stop filters inside?

I'm leaning towards team solid ND at this point with magnets. Years ago I swore off magnetic filter adapters when using the Xume system (before manfrotto bought it, very expensive for what they were). I carried a tripod/camera on my shoulder and in transit a filter came off and broke, but while actually shooting in the hand etc. there was never any issue.

@jmone the mavens look pretty good because you don't need an adapter. I'm wondering if something cheap like the sensei magnetic filter adapters would be good enough, then I could just use whatever solid NDs I like.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top