Videomic suitability on boom + cable question - HELP!

[theChipmunk]

Right, I'm sorry if these are dumb/overasked/ignorant questions, but I'm truly going nuts here and I can't, for love nor money, find answers to them by searching this forum or Google.

I need a microphone that can be used on the end of a boom pole. The frontrunner is the Rode Videomic, which is the limit of my budget.

However, there are two issues:

1. If I have two actors sitting, for example, across a table from each other - maybe a metre or a metre and a half away - and I point the Videomic centre, are they going to sound weird? I don't mind trying to aim the mic at each person individually, but is that going to cause a different audioscape (for lack of a better word) every time I rotate it as dialogue goes back and forth?
2. I understand that you get EMI in the wire on a boom - would a cable such as THIS solve most of the hiss/interference problems?

I intend to shoot around 50/50 internal/external.

Thanks in advance - it's a lot of money for me, but I need better audio than the onboard mic (on a 5D).

theChipmunk

P.S. I am aware that there are slightly more expensive mics that will give better audio and that Beachtek or juicedLink adaptors would give greater control and so on, but I simply cannot justify that amount of money until I've proved to myself that I can harness the film-making capabilities of my 5D. That will hopefully come later.
However, if there is a solution that costs around £80 (£90 at an absolute push) that will enable me to shoot the way I have described, I'm all ears!

 

[Alex H.]

Welcome to DVXUser!

Unfortunately, the VideoMic isn't going to give you much to work with on a pole. The unbalanced cable run is subject to noise and interference over longer lengths, and the mic really is made to be camera-mounted.

Also, having two actors separated by only a meter or so can be covered by one mic, but it takes careful preparation and blocking. The boom op should be well aware of the flow of dialog, and able to react quickly as the lines are delivered. It's not a matter of holding the mic centered between the actors, it's a matter of swinging the boom to favor whomever is speaking at any given moment. The more distance between actors, however, the more need there is for a second boom.

A shotgun, by the way, is not ideal for interiors. Too susceptible to reflections in a live space. They're okay in large, dead spaces... but not shooting in typical residential or commercial spaces.

Do you already have a fish pole (boom)? Or is £80 your total budget for mic and pole?

Also, do you have reliable headphones (Sony MDR-7506 or similar)?

One other consideration: even with an external mic, with or without a Beachtek, on-bard audio recording with the 5D is a challenge. Recording to an external recorder like a Zoom H4n or a Fostex FR2-LE will give you much better results in the long run... just something the put on your radar when you decide to beef up your audio.

 

[Allan Black]

What C2V said however .. it sounds like you're a solo op with a 5D?

The RODE Videomic is supercardioid and if the interior acoustic is damped down enough you *may* get away with it on a banquet stand in front of the talent feeding a small recorder which you have to sync up later.

Ask them with a smile not to mumble. Test it out beforehand, keep the cable as short as you can and listen for RF. Outdoors you need another op with a boom, try making one.

Cheers.

 

[theChipmunk]

Also, having two actors separated by only a meter or so can be covered by one mic, but it takes careful preparation and blocking. The boom op should be well aware of the flow of dialog, and able to react quickly as the lines are delivered. It's not a matter of holding the mic centered between the actors, it's a matter of swinging the boom to favor whomever is speaking at any given moment. The more distance between actors, however, the more need there is for a second boom.

I think I'm going to have to 'cheat' and cut creatively between two takes of the same scene with the mic pointed one way and then another for the more difficult scenarios. Ah well, one has to do these things!

A shotgun, by the way, is not ideal for interiors. Too susceptible to reflections in a live space. They're okay in large, dead spaces... but not shooting in typical residential or commercial spaces.

If I were to go for a hypercardioid, like the Rode M3, how would it perform outdoors?

Do you already have a fish pole (boom)? Or is £80 your total budget for mic and pole?

I am preparing to butcher a painter's pole soon. (And make a few mods to get it quiet!)

Also, do you have reliable headphones (Sony MDR-7506 or similar)?

Well, I certainly have suitable headphones, yes, but nowhere to plug them in to monitor from, unfortunately...

Thanks for the reply - it's cleared up the positioning issue a lot!

theChipmunk

 

[Alex H.]

I think I'm going to have to 'cheat' and cut creatively between two takes of the same scene with the mic pointed one way and then another for the more difficult scenarios. Ah well, one has to do these things!

Not an atypical way to shoot, either. Quite common, actually.

If I were to go for a hypercardioid, like the Rode M3, how would it perform outdoors?

The M3 is a cardioid, not a hypercardioid. It's also a bit bulkier/weightier than one would really want on the end of a pole. Look at something like the Oktava MK012 Bello Nero for a solid-performing, budget-minded hyper.

As for hypers outdoors, the wider angle of acceptance, as opposed to a shotgun, means that you have a closer working distance which may not be as practical outside. Plus, it won't reject as many of the extraneous noises you'll have outdoors. A hyper can be the right choice outside if shooting on a really reflective surface (tarmac, basketball court, tennis court, etc.), but that requires closer framing.

I am preparing to butcher a painter's pole soon. (And make a few mods to get it quiet!)

This will be okay in the short-run, but you'll soon find it's a bit of a challenge to be flexible with this DIY pole.

Well, I certainly have suitable headphones, yes, but nowhere to plug them in to monitor from, unfortunately...

Remember that flying blind with audio is playing with fire. You're bound to get burned when you hit post and find that your audio has a massive problem that could have been fixed, but wasn't since no one was listening at the time.

This is further reason to get an external recorder, so that you can listen to the audio as it is recorded.

 

[Noiz2]

Can you put the VideoMic on a boom? If you can at all (other than duct taping it) it's probably going to want a camera tripod tread. It's designed to fit a hot shoe.

Hyper can work quit well out side. You will pick up more "world" but on really small budget that isn't nec a bad thing. Unless you use some other box most of the other mics you could get (that would be an improvement) won't work with the 5D. I'm not sure if the RFI is going to be very significant if your not going too far with an extension. It's not a given with unbalanced lines just more of a possibility than with balanced. But with out some sort of conversion your not going to be able to use balanced lines anyway. The sound section on the 5D is not great anyway so I would be hesitant to spend much on a front end for it. If you have the firmware update and can manually set the level that is a big plus but all the audio I have heard from the 5D, even with an external mic, has been really thin. Not a super bad thing for dialog but...

 

[rallymatt]

Can you put the VideoMic on a boom? If you can at all (other than duct taping it) it's probably going to want a camera tripod tread. It's designed to fit a hot shoe.

Hyper can work quit well out side. You will pick up more "world" but on really small budget that isn't nec a bad thing. Unless you use some other box most of the other mics you could get (that would be an improvement) won't work with the 5D. I'm not sure if the RFI is going to be very significant if your not going too far with an extension. It's not a given with unbalanced lines just more of a possibility than with balanced. But with out some sort of conversion your not going to be able to use balanced lines anyway. The sound section on the 5D is not great anyway so I would be hesitant to spend much on a front end for it. If you have the firmware update and can manually set the level that is a big plus but all the audio I have heard from the 5D, even with an external mic, has been really thin. Not a super bad thing for dialog but...

Videomic Shockmount has a shoe mount, 1/4 and 3/8 threaded holes. It mounts to a boom very easily.

 

[Noiz2]

Cool, didn't know that.