C100: Video I made on C100 and 5D3

If you had read a previous post I did in fact acknowledge photographers and videographers have different needs as far as functionality goes. For starters photographers don't need to pull focus constantly. I also think the bar is lower for videographers you know..... wedding films, corporate videos, interviews TV, etc. Cinematographers are a cut above.

Photographers have their photos frozen in time, where as video takes place in time. Regardless of who is what, one thing is for sure...... photographers know a sharp lens when they see one, and videographers as you have pointed out aren't concerned with a sharp lens. In the context (sharp lenses) of my original comment about photographers I think I wasn't that far from the truth.

It's interesting you mention sound. I guess I'm just one of those idiots who buy the best mics on the planet instead of what most of you guys probably use. I'm sure you will now tell me the quality of microphones and external recording devices are a waste of money too.

I've seen countless videos demonstrating different lenses on the C100 and 5D3 and I won't be bamboozled into thinking that there is no difference between the 24-105 and the 70-200 f2.8 like I've said, I've seen it with my lying eyes. I guess it is more of an issue of money and economics for most of you guys.

Eric said: "Even on a C100 which is quite sharp, you're still only shooting 2 megapixels so the difference between a really sharp lens and a not as sharp lens won't be as substantial as when shooting 22 megapixels on a still camera."

Again you prove my point that photographers know more about the difference in sharp lens..... thank you.

So let me get this straight according to you all we need is the 24-105 and were fine. Got it! Thanks!
Right, so you acknowledge that photographers and videographers have different needs, but then you go off quoting your photographer friend in regards to your video needs.

No one ever said in this topic that sharper lenses on the C100 don't make a difference; they do, and no one ever said that the 24-105 is as sharp as a 24-70 II or 70-200 II. It's just that sharper lenses don't make as much of a difference as they would on a 22 megapixel still camera, and that must be taken into consideration when choosing lenses, and that photographers who have a lot of knowledge of still lenses are probably not your best guide in making lens purchases for video cameras. The Canon 24-105 is "good enough" for a lot of videographers' work, good enough meaning the client is happy, the videographer is well paid for their services, and everyone is happy, except perhaps for a photographer who misunderstands what needs videographers have and raves about their superior lenses which a lot of videographers don't need but may want.

Of course all purchases come down to budgetary choices unless one is rich or happens to have very high paying clients in relation to the cost of their gear. It's my opinion that a Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II is a good purchase, but only after you've purchased other more important items such as good audio, cameras, lighting, etc., as the differences in image quality compared to other cheaper but good quality lenses (such as Nikons) is not as large as the benefits that you can achieve with better cameras, lighting, etc., for the same amount of money.

As an example, you could ask your photographer friend if for general purpose photography they'd rather have a Canon 70-200 f/4 IS (along with other general lenses) with flashes or a Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS without flashes, and I'd guess they'd prefer to have flashes available even if it means shooting on a less sharp lens. It's all about prioritizing based on the budget you have to get the best results you can with what you can currently afford.

You also have to consider that a lot of work which goes out to Youtube gets played at a default of 480p from those who don't want to make the effort to select 1080p and often viewers dont make the image full-screen, as well as many people watching it on their phones and tablets. While a sharp 1080p image is nice, if only a small percentage of your audience is viewing it properly, then money spent on sharper lenses may again be going to waste. Whereas, say dynamic range, for example, which is better on a C100 than a 5D, is something that can be noticed by the general audiences even on a smartphone (window blown out vs. not blown out), as well as the difference between good lighting and bad lighting.


For audio I have the Scheops CMC641, Sanken CS-3e, Sanken COS-11D, Countryman B6, and Countryman B3, which is about $4500 worth of mics not including the other 10 or so cheaper mics I have. I'm not one of those cheap mic videographers you mention. :)

Then again, I've been using a Canon 24-105 and a Nikon 80-200 f/2.8 for a lot of my work, instead of superior lenses such as the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS and Canon 24-70 f/2.8 II, which together cost $4000. Are you suggesting my work over the past couple years would have been better if I had skipped out on the expensive mics and instead bought those expensive lenses? I can't afford everything so choices have to be made.
 
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Yeah, I noticed the image was focused on the guitar leaving him slightly soft, which I suppose makes it harder to tell which image is sharper, though I'd hardly agree yours is definitively sharper as you say.

If you'd set it to f/4 or f/5.6, particularly at a shorter focal length, you could have easily had both in full focus. I'm not saying that's what you wanted, but it is how I would have done it. Why? Well, I'd see it as a performance of both the guitarist and the guitar, so to have the guitarist fully in frame like that while just slightly soft on focus is a bit jarring to me. Since you know the music industry and the particulars of the shoot better, perhaps you know it is best to separate them, in which case if you want to separate them, you already have a tight shot of his hands in the video, or if you wanted to separate them in a medium shot while maintaining him in the shot, I'd think it would be better if there was more separation, such as could be achieved on an 85mm f/1.2, for example, along with perhaps positioning his head or the camera angle so there is more distance from his face to where you are focusing on the guitar. I guess the whole slightly soft focus on him while having sharper focus on the guitar just doesn't do it for me, and makes it look like you missed focus on him.

18 inches? Our two shots are framed pretty similarly; I'm about 10-12 feet away from the talent, which is plenty of distance. At 70mm-100mm on your 70-200, then you're about 15 feet away instead of 10-12 feet, which doesn't make much difference in terms of distance from talent.

11034360_660653134041286_1669132113400239874_o.jpg

My slider and camera are in the same place I left it during the last shoot, just put on my 50 1.4 and I come up a bit short.

The main reason I don't want to open up the aperture to 4 or 5.6 is because I do want some bhoke. Also, if I were to shoot his face I would prefer to do that on the 5D3 being a bit softer..... I don't need to see detail of the face. At 2.8 it a choice between the guitarist or the guitar, I choose the guitar. I mean the reason I sold my XH-A1 and bought a 5d3 was for bhoke. Eric, it's a bit more complex than just shooting a guy in a chair. Did I say 18 inches? perhaps I was exaggerating, I need to stop thinking in terms of full frame, and remember super 35.
 
Right, so you acknowledge that photographers and videographers have different needs, but then you go off quoting your photographer friend in regards to your video needs..

Well yes, only if you consider a better lens might produce a better video. But, now from you videographers I've learned the opposite is true.
 
Well yes, only if you consider a better lens might produce a better video. But, now from you videographers I've learned the opposite is true.
All I'm saying is that a better lens only produces a better video if it doesn't mean skimping on the budget for other items which could have improved the video more for the same price.
 
Right, so you acknowledge that photographers and videographers have different needs, but then you go off quoting your photographer friend in regards to your video needs.

No one ever said in this topic that sharper lenses on the C100 don't make a difference; they do, and no one ever said that the 24-105 is as sharp as a 24-70 II or 70-200 II. It's just that sharper lenses don't make as much of a difference as they would on a 22 megapixel still camera, and that must be taken into consideration when choosing lenses, and that photographers who have a lot of knowledge of still lenses are probably not your best guide in making lens purchases for video cameras. The Canon 24-105 is "good enough" for a lot of videographers' work, good enough meaning the client is happy, the videographer is well paid for their services, and everyone is happy, except perhaps for a photographer who misunderstands what needs videographers have and raves about their superior lenses which a lot of videographers don't need but may want..

I don't work for a client so I have to try and please myself..... If I'm pleased then I've done my job. Can my work be improved? Always, and forever. This whole silly debate began when Doug said, my lens was probably faulty, and there was no difference in sharpness between the f4 and 2.8. In fact ,I always believed that too...... they were the same from the research I did when I bought my f4. That's why I went crazy when I saw the difference in these two lenses when I first put it on my C100 I became quite animated and danced a Jigue. I clearly saw a huge improvement in contrast and sharpness.

I then get into a never ending quagmire. There is a great documentary called "I know What I Saw" I keep repeating this to myself every time Doug starts to work his his psycho-ocular babble.
 
All I'm saying is that a better lens only produces a better video if it doesn't mean skimping on the budget for other items which could have improved the video more for the same price.

Well, I'm not talking price, I think in terms of quality. I really hate the 24-105. I only keep it for convince and use it when I too lazy to grab something else. Once I saw the difference in video quality between the 24-105 and my 70-200 f4 IS I could never go back to the 24-105, other than if I needed a wide angle.
 
Well sure, price aside, obviously go for the better lens. But for most videographers who are making a living off of their work, we have to take into account if the slightly improved image quality will result in us making more money to make a profit off the purchase of said expensive lens, so price is just about always a concern. If you happen to make enough money off of your music and guitar sales that $2000 for a lens is no big deal, then buying it is an easy choice.
 
By the way, I really like the way this video was shot and edited, not of a guitarist, but a cellist, so similar.


Yes, I can appreciate the skill in making it. But, it's a bit like watching flowers go in and out of focus, I just wasn't drawn in to it, despite the skill involved...... I know I'm weird about this stuff but that is my taste...... I need content...... and that music was hum...... how shall I say........ pretty bad.
 
I have filmed probably 20+ television shows this year using the 24-105 on a C100. No complaints from either producers or editors. In fact, have not heard of any of the million or so viewers calling the Network to complain about how sharp the images were. Great IS, great wide shots and versatile. Don't see the problem.

Yea, I have no doubt any of your viewers complained.

Great wide shots? Really? Have you seen how much barrel distortion there is on that thing wide open? I guess you didn't, or maybe that was part of the look?
 
Well sure, price aside, obviously go for the better lens. But for most videographers who are making a living off of their work, we have to take into account if the slightly improved image quality will result in us making more money to make a profit off the purchase of said expensive lens, so price is just about always a concern. If you happen to make enough money off of your music and guitar sales that $2000 for a lens is no big deal, then buying it is an easy choice.

I understand you guys must calculate the price of equipment verse profit, and yes, I would also agree that 99% of the viewers would not see a difference. For the life of me, I don't see a difference between the C100 and the C300.

The problem is now I see a difference in my 70-200 f4 and the 2.8, and it bugs me. I told my photographer friend after using her lens I need to buy one of these...... she said, why? I live next door. Nice neighbors to have.
 
I try and avoid labels Doug, but if pressed I guess I call myself an "artist". How about you, how do you refer to yourself?
You said that we were "self proclaim film makers", so I was wondering what you call yourself. You don't care about labels (me neither BTW) but it seem that you have no problem labelling others.
 
You said that we were "self proclaim film makers", so I was wondering what you call yourself. You don't care about labels (me neither BTW) but it seem that you have no problem labelling others.


Doug don't take it so personally, I was speaking in general terms, myself included. There are different levels of filmmakers/videographers or whatever your preferred title maybe. You have to admit anyone these days can make a film with a minimal investment in cameras, gear and education etc. I've seen some great stuff filmed on an HV-20 by amateurs, to some pretty bad stuff by so called professionals..... again myself included.
 
Doug don't take it so personally, I was speaking in general terms, myself included. There are different levels of filmmakers/videographers or whatever your preferred title maybe. You have to admit anyone these days can make a film with a minimal investment in cameras, gear and education etc. I've seen some great stuff filmed on an HV-20 by amateurs, to some pretty bad stuff by so called professionals..... again myself included.
Couldn't agree more!
 
You do know that 'wide open' refers to the maximum aperture a lens will allow? Appears you are confusing 'wide open' with wide focal length? :shocked:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/201...uide-to-photography-terminology/#.VhSZ89YZf8s

Mere semantics my friend. In the context of your statement I'm sure you knew what I meant. Although I did skim through the link you provided the term "wide focal length" or "Wide open" was nowhere to be found. I assume you were referring to setting your 24-105......... to 24mm for your "wide open shots". Personally I never do that either at 24 or 105 because that particular lens has terrible barrel distortion that even an amateur such as I can see. The lowest I will go on that thing is 35mm, and certainly not the maximum.

Although I'm sure perhaps you and your TV viewers never noticed it.
 
Getting back to the point of my post. What I take away from this is, I need to work on my lighting, lighting is a skill that probably takes many years of experience. While some of us can get by with basic level, the art is what separates us boys from the men. So, I will devote more time to this and most likely more hit and miss videos until I can get the look I'm after.

Camera angles on the other hand are interesting but, highly subjective, anything can basically work i guess or not, but you can't get away with bad lighting. After all I can set up the "Second Shooter" basically a robot for different camera angles.

Anyway my next shoot hopefully will be incrementally better.
 
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