VFR mode on the AF101 may have cost me my biggest client today!

I kind of agree with danap's sentiment . . .

After all, there are people that can be stumped by almost anything that has more than an on/off switch.

For folks like that there's no guarantee that a full screen surgeon general’s warning,
"You're in VFR Dumb--- therefore no audio is actually being recorded" might not solve the problem, <g>.
(I fall into this category).

To a person we've all expressed regret for the users that overlooked the issue.

To be fair, yes, Panasonic should come up with a more suitable solution: killing the meters, killing the audio to the headphones, pictures of dancing bears, whatever . . .

But to go on and on about something that could have been avoided, blaming the manufacturer for our mistakes is counter-productive (IMHO).

Let's face it, you get a new product on Tuesday. You spend (whatever is left of Tuesday after delivery) and Wednesday trying to match it with the look of another camera then go out the following day for a paid shoot? I don't think so. Perhaps I'm slower than most but I'd feel I was inadequately prepared if that's all I could invest in potentially spending someone else’s money.

I can buy the "it looked like it was recording" (or sounded like it was), therefore I did not see the need to play back a clip . . . That wouldn't be my approach. I can say with assurance that'd I'd be taking a lot of practice shots and playing them back.

Early on Panasonic responded with a solution in the firmware. Not exactly what we'd have? Okay but, speaking for myself, I can't imagine doing anything else other than checking the manufacturers website for firmware updates while my battery was in the charger for the first time . . . but again, that's just me.

"I searched the forum and somehow overlooked it." Sure, that happens to me all the time when I don't do a thorough job of looking but I don't base my actions on familiarity with some other camera. Fact is there are a lot of stickies in nearly every section of DVXUSER and I can almost guarantee that most of them go unread.

Make no mistake, if there is a way to screw up, I'll more than likely be the one to find it. That's an unfortunate part of how I learn. It's also lessons like that which cause me to not repeat those actions.

This (the AF-100) is a different kind of camera. It has really nice feature set and a lot of potential but, as I have learned, it requires just a little more thought and preparation to achieve truly stellar results.

Bottom line (for me) is that if I make a mistake I'm going to take responsibility for it--not make excuses or blame Panasonic. Again, I feel for the folks that employ this method of learning and admire their responsibility (and guts) for owning up to it.

Peace.
 
Dumb question.. is it conceivable to record the audio in VFR mode, with some future update?
It would play back slow, but you could easily be corrected with your NLE?
 
My biggest complaint about it. At least they did address it after some screaming.






Now, I've changed my mind and think it would be a good use of the wheel, because after experimenting with the ISOs I think there's little to no noise difference, and little to no DR difference, from 200 to 800. And even 3200 is pretty clean. So I think changing ISO is a far more valid technique on this particular video camera, than it was on any of their prior cameras -- adding gain is pretty much a big verboten no-no in the world of video cameras.

But yes, it is a valid technique and it would be nice if they added it.


First of all, commiserations on the busted job. I had that problem once on my first job with my HPX, a Bar Mitzvah that looked phenomenal but soundless. I inadvertently shot the entire event at 48 fps as my hand hit something as I was mounting it on my jib. I've since then, always done a record check before any job. Play back, watch listen.

More suggested use of the wheel: I was hired as a shooter on a wedding once and had to use the contractor's camera - a Sony something or whatnot that shot HD onto Mini DV.

I found one feature on this Sony very useful - a wheel that enabled me to dial in a numerical color temperature value on the fly as I moved from location to location in the bridal suite. You know how you move and the lighting situation changes over and over? Well, the other shooter and I just kept updating each other the numerical value so we could match right off the bat. I left wishing I had that on my HPX170, and I wouldn't really mind, on the AF100, a multi-function wheel that toggles what it controls when it is pressed, ISO or TEMP.
 
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I found one feature on this Sony very useful - a wheel that enabled me to dial in a numerical color temperature value on the fly as I moved from location to location in the bridal suite. You know how you move and the lighting situation changes over and over? Well, the other shooter and I just kept updating each other the numerical value so we could match right off the bat. I left wishing I had that on my HPX170, and I wouldn't really mind, on the AF100, a multi-function wheel that toggles what it controls when it is pressed, ISO or TEMP.

The af-100 can already do this using the function knob. Set the white balance switch to preset, then push the awb button on the front till you get to VAR. That means variable mode, you can then push the function knob up and down to manually dial in a specific white balance in kelven degrees.
 
I'll ask my question again (I searched, but couldn't find anything.. Maybe Barry knows?)
Is it impossible for Panasonic to somehow make VFR mode record audio?
 
It is impossible for it to record audio in its 1080/60p mode, yes, because the audio wouldn't line up or sync. How would you record slow-mo audio?

Now, with that said, I've begged them to do it anyway, as a last safety measure to prevent anybody from being burned, but -- they're not going to.

I have asked them to turn the audio meters red as an indication that audio isn't being recorded. We will have to see if they will take any further steps. They have already addressed the issue, which is better than nothing, but I do think a bit more is needed.
 
"I've begged them to do it anyway, as a last safety measure to prevent anybody from being burned, but -- they're not going to"
Thats' a pity..
It would be very useful if it could make a separate audio file (non-slow-mo) for every slow-mo video clip. That would allow any VFR clip, to be changed to real time after-the-fact.
I wonder if it exceeds the data-rate capilities of the camera, or SD card?
 
"I've begged them to do it anyway, as a last safety measure to prevent anybody from being burned, but -- they're not going to"
Thats' a pity..
It would be very useful if it could make a separate audio file (non-slow-mo) for every slow-mo video clip. That would allow any VFR clip, to be changed to real time after-the-fact.
I wonder if it exceeds the data-rate capilities of the camera, or SD card?
I've been asking for that since the first HVX200 came on the market in 2005. For whatever reason, they can't or won't do it. I wish they would, but they can't or won't.
 
Barry, Thanks for the info.. always wondered why the audio wasn't recorded regardless of frame rate (in a separate file). Maybe someday?

"I've begged them to do it anyway, as a last safety measure to prevent anybody from being burned, but -- they're not going to"

Thats' a pity..
It would be very useful if it could make a separate audio file (non-slow-mo) for every slow-mo video clip. That would allow any VFR clip, to be changed to real time after-the-fact.
I wonder if it exceeds the data-rate capilities of the camera, or SD card?

I've been asking for that since the first HVX200 came on the market in 2005. For whatever reason, they can't or won't do it. I wish they would, but they can't or won't.
 
Not sure it would work with the AVCCAM units (like the AF100); but it would be super slick if the P2 units could automatically record a "Voice memo" from Channel 1 at the start of every VFR clip for the shooting duration. Though I don't recall if there's a length limit on voice memos.

- Mikko
 
After reading this thread - any update to making the rear scroll wheel work with ISO settings?
Thanks,
Shawn
 
Hey all,

I work in IT/AV at an Art College here in California, and just felt the wrath of the Panasonic AF100's 'Toggle Gate'! Actually to be accurate, one of our teachers and the director of our film program felt it's wrath... the director is managing damage control with HR and the school president as I type this.

I won't go into all the details other than to say someone I heavily respect and like is really getting the short end of the stick because of this massive flaw. The teacher/camera man he used has worked around the AF100 and knows his stuff, but was apparently unaware of this flaw. Luckily because the footage was handed off to me to copy, I decided to take a peek and caught the missing audio before it was overnight'ed to our corporate headquarters for editing.

Just wanted to post after seeing the initial story that started this thread. I generally love Panasonic, but I'm not sure I'd recommend them after this.
 
Here is an idea for a firmware update: when you are in VFR - kill the audio levels and headphone output. If you're not recording sound- don't lead us to believe we are with moving meters and live sound in the headset. Why is that so hard for Panasonic to understand? And furthermore- upon registration at PASS, have a blurb that reminds new owners of this "feature".

And if they don't do the above, at the very least have that cheesy no audio icon blink while in VFR.
 
I'll go one better. Just record sound when in overcrank so if it was unintended the shot can be easily recovered in post. Unintended overcrank on a rushed shot can happen. In fact it did to me on my last project.
 
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Here is an idea for a firmware update: when you are in VFR - kill the audio levels and headphone output. If you're not recording sound- don't lead us to believe we are with moving meters and live sound in the headset.

This is how the hvx 200 works. Panasonic dropped the ball.
 
Yup. Just happened to us. 2 hours ago. Oh boy...manual syncing to audio guys files. It could be worse...It could be worse. Ugh. OOmff. I love the feeling of my heart stopping.
 
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