Bern Caughey
Veteran
Was hoping to wait for the Black Friday event to eyeball the lenses first, but your note concerning limited availability motivated me to reserve a set.
Veydra Mini Prime Micro 4/3 Mount Cinema Lenses On Kickstarter
- Thread starter Erik Naso
- Start date
Was hoping to wait for the Black Friday event to eyeball the lenses first, but your note concerning limited availability motivated me to reserve a set.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
While not impossible, it's not going to happen. Or at least not anytime soon. And if anything, the availability of native cine glass will extend the system longer given MFT unique market position. If the Veydras are successful you can bet that this time next year they'll have competition. MFT has its foothold well and truly established and because of who the manufacturers supporting it are it has strong penetration into the lower/mid budget in the media sphere. It is the ideal format to innovate for the mass market, accessories are light weight, small footprint and easy to manufacture. Just the reduced mass of MFT gear removes a lot of limitations in design and materials. MFT is the flexible system, able to mount just about anything via an adapter due to flange distance. The next Marvel film will not be shot on MFT but you can bet many parodies, tributes and fan films likely will.
Since I got my BMPCC I've really begun to see how there is a convergence around the MFT system that reflects in much more than just the sensor size of the role of that 16mm format played in the days of film, and for much the same reasons. And that role is one that is growing as the medium as a whole continues to be increasingly accessible. I mean, owning cine lenses were always a pipe dream for me. Even if these Veydras are toys by comparison I still feel I've beaten my projected curve in getting them. And that's the revolution that MFT has the box seat in, where consumers have access to a professional workflow without paying the exponential premium each 1% of improvement costs at the upper end of the scale.
I wouldn't panic sell your camera yet. Even if a better system comes along it will be many years after before MFT winds down.
EndCredits
Well-known member
I agree, mft is a great format. A lot of people fret about crop factor but mft is still a large format and its a lot bigger than s16. No one dismisses s16 as a less capable format. And keep in mind s16 is a 2 times crop on s35, in the same way that mft is a 2 times crop on full frame 35.
I love the idea of the Veydras. I am very tempted to get a set. Its just cash flow that stops me. I love the mft format. Funelly enough the talk about compatibility on different sensors is the opposite of how I feel. We have been shooting on the Zeiss Compact Zooms, the CZ 28-80 & CZ 70-200. Now these lenses have a nice look and are very good quality, but I don't like them. They are too big, too heavy and too short. All because they are designed to cover a full frame 35 mm sensor. Who is really gonna use them on that? Its, as far as I can tell, all due to a fear of something becoming obsolete if a new camera comes out with a larger sensor.
S35 is a great format and mft is now like the new s16 format. That's fine by me. Hopefully there will be more products like the Veydra lenses and mft continues to mature.
I love the idea of the Veydras. I am very tempted to get a set. Its just cash flow that stops me. I love the mft format. Funelly enough the talk about compatibility on different sensors is the opposite of how I feel. We have been shooting on the Zeiss Compact Zooms, the CZ 28-80 & CZ 70-200. Now these lenses have a nice look and are very good quality, but I don't like them. They are too big, too heavy and too short. All because they are designed to cover a full frame 35 mm sensor. Who is really gonna use them on that? Its, as far as I can tell, all due to a fear of something becoming obsolete if a new camera comes out with a larger sensor.
S35 is a great format and mft is now like the new s16 format. That's fine by me. Hopefully there will be more products like the Veydra lenses and mft continues to mature.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Went to HotRod Cameras today and got a good look at the lenses. Didn't do any specific testing in regards to the optical quality, but I did get my hands on them and play a bit.
I have to say that the size, weight, and the dampened fluidity of the focus rings were very nice and although I don't mind larger lenses, as I'm used to them, these will go great for people who are used to smaller lenses.
These were prototype models, obviously. And outside of my initial remarks about the focus marks/ distance engravings, these lenses are pretty well thought out.
I think 1/3 stop marking on the non-linear iris (up to an T/5.6) would be possible and maybe a half stop from 5.6-8 would be a good idea, considering the non-linear aspect of the iris.
The lens is so small, that there really isn't much real-estate, but I'd like to see the focal length of the lens engraved somewhere visible on the side of the barrel. If you use a MB with bellows, a donuts or a clip-on back, the focal length of the lens will be covered. It helps to be able to see it for those rare brain farts and you forget if the 35mm or the 50mm is on the camera.... AC's and DP's alike.
Other than that, they were quite nice little lenses and definitely so, for the price. Again, did not do anything but look through them. No testing the optics.
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Bern Caughey
Veteran
Swung by Hot Rod Cameras yesterday to see the Veydra lens set. I also didn't shoot any tests & my impressions echo Ryan's.
Came away believing Veydra's going to sell a lot of lenses & looking forward to adding them to the kit.
Came away believing Veydra's going to sell a lot of lenses & looking forward to adding them to the kit.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
I'm getting my set through HRC but backed the Kickstarter for a t-shirt to go with them. Since I laid my money down might as well be a fanboy 
120 backers and 250% funded with 9 days to go. Looks like I didn't need to sell my kidneys, all hell broke loose at work and I've been pulling 80-90 hour weeks. Taxman is getting rich but I get a cut too. Earning triple my income at the mo. Can't believe the fortuitous timing, I've had more OT in the last two weeks alone than the last 2 years combined. Not much left in the tank though, taking today off.
120 backers and 250% funded with 9 days to go. Looks like I didn't need to sell my kidneys, all hell broke loose at work and I've been pulling 80-90 hour weeks. Taxman is getting rich but I get a cut too. Earning triple my income at the mo. Can't believe the fortuitous timing, I've had more OT in the last two weeks alone than the last 2 years combined. Not much left in the tank though, taking today off.
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Honestly, the only thing stopping me from placing a Kickstarter order for the whole set right now is the speed of the lenses. T2.2 is fine, but I'm used to shooting at f/0.95 on my GH4.
I know, I know... I shouldn't be shooting at f/0.95 because the image gets soft at that aperture, and it's harder to keep anything in focus with such shallow depth of field. But I shoot a lot of events in dark theaters, and the super-fast aperture of my current lenses has saved my butt more times than I care to admit.
These lenses are made for cinema, which means there should be adequate lighting for T2.2 lenses. I know that. But I really, really wish these opened up to f/1.4 or so, because I'd love to have a matching set with the ergonomics of these lenses. I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
I know, I know... I shouldn't be shooting at f/0.95 because the image gets soft at that aperture, and it's harder to keep anything in focus with such shallow depth of field. But I shoot a lot of events in dark theaters, and the super-fast aperture of my current lenses has saved my butt more times than I care to admit.
These lenses are made for cinema, which means there should be adequate lighting for T2.2 lenses. I know that. But I really, really wish these opened up to f/1.4 or so, because I'd love to have a matching set with the ergonomics of these lenses. I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Why do you want cinema lenses for event shooting? I know these particular lenses seem to be very good and in my opinion they likely will work *better* for videography purposes, due to the lack of witness marks, but still, I mean... 2.2 is rather fast.
No matter what product anyone offers, there will always be people wanting better for less.
If you want greater exposure levels, maybe you should get some quality manual FF lenses with a speedbooster? Something like ZE's?
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Jaime Valles
Veteran
Because of the ergonomics. Right now I shoot with fast primes I've cobbled together, and I love the quality of the footage I'm getting. But I'd like the ergonomics of the lenses themselves to be better. For one, I'd like them all to focus the same direction! Also, a longer focus throw would only help. Having them all be the same size and with the same filter thread is also fantastic.
Indeed, 2.2 is fast, but I'm just spoiled by my f/0.95 lenses right now. And for event shooting I need all the help I can get when it comes to working in low-light. I'm not knocking the Veydra Mini Primes at all. They tick off almost every box I want in a new set of lenses (price, size, mechanics). But a fast aperture is a big one for me, so I'll keep waiting for them to make "super-speeds" someday. And I sincerely hope they continue making lenses at these prices after the massive success of their Kickstarter campaign!
Without a doubt.
I'm not a fan of the speedbooster, myself. Adding more glass to the adapter does funky things to the image. I prefer native m4/3 lenses, as there's less wiggle room around the mount, and the lenses themselves are smaller and lighter, which is always a plus.
combatentropy
Veteran
While the Veydras seem like very fine lenses and I wish them the very best, I'm curious how they will compare with Voigtlander. Jaime Valles brings up a good point. The Veydras are the same size, weight, and price, but two stops slower.
I suppose that the Veydras may be more ergonomic for a crew, with their uniform sizes and longer focus throws, but for the many one-man bands here, is the trade-off worth it? I've even read that longer focus throw is a bad thing if you're doing everything yourself. Longer focus throw is better for when you have a dedicated focus puller, worse when you are you are turning the focus ring on the lens yourself. I'm interested in others' opinions.
Regardless, I think the differences are minor, especially with newer cameras being so good in low light. Also, I think that the line between cool bokeh and obnoxiously shallow focus is around f/2 in the Four Thirds format. Crazy shallow focus is like seasoning --- best used in small doses.
If the Veydras meet expectations, I think you couldn't really go wrong with them.
I suppose that the Veydras may be more ergonomic for a crew, with their uniform sizes and longer focus throws, but for the many one-man bands here, is the trade-off worth it? I've even read that longer focus throw is a bad thing if you're doing everything yourself. Longer focus throw is better for when you have a dedicated focus puller, worse when you are you are turning the focus ring on the lens yourself. I'm interested in others' opinions.
Regardless, I think the differences are minor, especially with newer cameras being so good in low light. Also, I think that the line between cool bokeh and obnoxiously shallow focus is around f/2 in the Four Thirds format. Crazy shallow focus is like seasoning --- best used in small doses.
If the Veydras meet expectations, I think you couldn't really go wrong with them.
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Egg Born Son
Veteran
Yeah, no one is suggesting these are for everybody. As Jaime has, it is important to consider your own needs before leaping.
In regards to the throw, first how often would you need a rack focus from 1ft to infinity? Secondly some follow focuses are adjustable with different gear ratios supplied or available. And 3D printers have everything else covered, there's a couple of ebay sellers doing this. With my short throw stills glass I'm only using a fraction of my available comfortable wrist action from extreme to extreme. If I have to there's a little more range in the discomfort zone. Mine's just a cheapy early RJ which I think I will be able to justify upgrading after I get my Veydras, in for a penny in for a pound. If you're not using a follow focus, would you actually need the uniform lens sizes? I find repositioning a matte box takes only a few seconds whereas adjusting the follow focus and finding the sweet spot is sufficient to interrupt my train of thought. Can live with both but look forward to not needing to.
Haha, I won't have them for a few weeks yet. Even if they are delivered on schedule they've still got to arrive at HRC and then shipped internationally to me. I'd say mid Feb is the likely date for me. I've had a rest now and getting ideas about pushing hard for another month or two but to take the OT as time in lieu so I can take 8 weeks of holidays this year for filmmaking jobs (with my new lenses, yay!). I feel on the cusp of a breakthrough year in 2015. Got a couple of independents lined up, developing a couple of my own and I've been networking at some xmas parties and discovered there is in fact a hidden filmmaking industry/community (beyond lone wolf operations) in my city and I've finally found it.
Getting some love for blackmagic around here too, hopefully getting some work in some real productions (keeping a lid on the excitement, I figured out pretty quick how superficial the conversations and evaporative the offers can be) working in 2nd or 3rd unit. I feel that's about right for my level right now and the opportunity will progress my knowledge and abilities far faster than going it alone. And it might be a path into advertising, some of the producers I talked to fund their narrative arms on deferred payment, ostensibly to develop talent to feed the main business, if I understood the model correctly. Hope I don't have to do too much of that stuff, kinda icky environment to be in. Didn't think it would be like what you see on hollywood expose type shows over here but it was exactly the same. I feel for the actors because their livelihood depends on these events. Must be soul crushing. You could taste the desperation in the air. Yech.
In regards to the throw, first how often would you need a rack focus from 1ft to infinity? Secondly some follow focuses are adjustable with different gear ratios supplied or available. And 3D printers have everything else covered, there's a couple of ebay sellers doing this. With my short throw stills glass I'm only using a fraction of my available comfortable wrist action from extreme to extreme. If I have to there's a little more range in the discomfort zone. Mine's just a cheapy early RJ which I think I will be able to justify upgrading after I get my Veydras, in for a penny in for a pound. If you're not using a follow focus, would you actually need the uniform lens sizes? I find repositioning a matte box takes only a few seconds whereas adjusting the follow focus and finding the sweet spot is sufficient to interrupt my train of thought. Can live with both but look forward to not needing to.
Haha, I won't have them for a few weeks yet. Even if they are delivered on schedule they've still got to arrive at HRC and then shipped internationally to me. I'd say mid Feb is the likely date for me. I've had a rest now and getting ideas about pushing hard for another month or two but to take the OT as time in lieu so I can take 8 weeks of holidays this year for filmmaking jobs (with my new lenses, yay!). I feel on the cusp of a breakthrough year in 2015. Got a couple of independents lined up, developing a couple of my own and I've been networking at some xmas parties and discovered there is in fact a hidden filmmaking industry/community (beyond lone wolf operations) in my city and I've finally found it.
Getting some love for blackmagic around here too, hopefully getting some work in some real productions (keeping a lid on the excitement, I figured out pretty quick how superficial the conversations and evaporative the offers can be) working in 2nd or 3rd unit. I feel that's about right for my level right now and the opportunity will progress my knowledge and abilities far faster than going it alone. And it might be a path into advertising, some of the producers I talked to fund their narrative arms on deferred payment, ostensibly to develop talent to feed the main business, if I understood the model correctly. Hope I don't have to do too much of that stuff, kinda icky environment to be in. Didn't think it would be like what you see on hollywood expose type shows over here but it was exactly the same. I feel for the actors because their livelihood depends on these events. Must be soul crushing. You could taste the desperation in the air. Yech.
Adam Wilt got his hands on some. This should help a few of you on the fence
http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/first-look-veydra-mini-primes-for-micro-four-thirds
http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/first-look-veydra-mini-primes-for-micro-four-thirds
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Thanks Noel!
dustylense
Veteran
Are you in for a set of these Bern?
combatentropy
Veteran
"If I had to describe Veydras in one pithy phrase, I’d say, 'scaled-down Ultra Primes for micro four thirds cameras.' They’re sharp, rectilinear, and clean: good, workmanlike optics with no nasty surprises."
That's quite a compliment!
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Put down a deposit for a complete set at HRC.