Sorry, I don't.
GH4 Very Disappointed
- Thread starter Jim Simon
- Start date
Sorry, I don't.
So...I went ahead and purchased a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera.
First thing I noticed when using it for a wedding over the weekend is how much lighter it is. I never considered the GH4 heavy, especially compared to the DVX100 from which I entered the world of DLSR video. But man, moving from the BMPCC to the GH4, I sure do notice the difference.
Second thing I notice is...WOW, that image quality! ProRes' 10 bit 4:2:2 handles Log shooting sooooooo much better than 8 bit 4:2:0 H.264.
Third thing I really like about the BMPCC - RAW! Damn, the flexibility is just awesome! And the files play just fine on my older i7 920 system, both in Premiere Pro and in Resolve.
Now this is filmmaking.
First thing I noticed when using it for a wedding over the weekend is how much lighter it is. I never considered the GH4 heavy, especially compared to the DVX100 from which I entered the world of DLSR video. But man, moving from the BMPCC to the GH4, I sure do notice the difference.
Second thing I notice is...WOW, that image quality! ProRes' 10 bit 4:2:2 handles Log shooting sooooooo much better than 8 bit 4:2:0 H.264.
Third thing I really like about the BMPCC - RAW! Damn, the flexibility is just awesome! And the files play just fine on my older i7 920 system, both in Premiere Pro and in Resolve.
Now this is filmmaking.
rob norton
Veteran
Just because you notice a difference doesn't mean the weight of the GH4 would ever be a problem.
Weight in your hand while shooting is less but total weight of the GH4 vs. BMPCC would probably be very similar after you add about 40 of those matchstick size batteries for a day's shooting.
I agree about the image, I own the micro cinema camera and use it more than the GH4 now. The GH4 has been fantastic but I'll probably sell it soon.
You'll have to share some of these films that you couldn't have made with the GH4 but can now make with the BMPCC!
Weight in your hand while shooting is less but total weight of the GH4 vs. BMPCC would probably be very similar after you add about 40 of those matchstick size batteries for a day's shooting.
I agree about the image, I own the micro cinema camera and use it more than the GH4 now. The GH4 has been fantastic but I'll probably sell it soon.
You'll have to share some of these films that you couldn't have made with the GH4 but can now make with the BMPCC!
I don't for a moment believe that's the issue.
For me, the issue is that with the GH4, even on an overcast day with soft, even lighting, if I expose for the bride's face, her dress was clipping. If I expose for the dress, her face was too dark. That problem is only exacerbated on a bright, sunny day.
It's non-existent shooting RAW.
DPStewart
Veteran
Mwaaahaaahaaaaaaa!.....
Yes, welcome to the world of RAW. It's night and day.
I shoot my Blackmagics exclusively in RAW. I don't even bother with ProRes.
And I hardly use any of my other cameras at all anymore. Including the 4K NX1 which I find superior to the GH4 in just about every way.
NONE of it compares to Shooting in RAW.
Yes, welcome to the world of RAW. It's night and day.
I shoot my Blackmagics exclusively in RAW. I don't even bother with ProRes.
And I hardly use any of my other cameras at all anymore. Including the 4K NX1 which I find superior to the GH4 in just about every way.
NONE of it compares to Shooting in RAW.
rob norton
Veteran
Fair enough. I'm glad you found a camera you can enjoy.
It does exist in RAW and I suggest the variance you're seeing is the difference between GH4 DR and the BMPCC DR. RAW isn't a magic caveat that allows unlimited DR. RAW allows some backend choices to be made.
Exactly. It's the increased dynamic range in combination with those choices that 'handle' the issue previously mentioned.
So after some testing of the BMPCC's RAW media using Resolve, I finally have the image quality I've been looking for. Hot damn this little camera looks good. The colors, the skin tones, the details...WOW!
It is looking more and more likely that I'll be selling my gently used GH4 and picking up a second BMPCC. Having two of these little giants in my bag would really step up my production value.
Thanks everyone for participating and helping me figure this out.
It is looking more and more likely that I'll be selling my gently used GH4 and picking up a second BMPCC. Having two of these little giants in my bag would really step up my production value.
Thanks everyone for participating and helping me figure this out.
blazer003
Well-known member
I love the image from the BMPCC as well, however, for what I do, the BMPCC didn't cut it. To be fair I used the BMPCC for 2 weeks right after it came out (local AV house asked me to put it through its paces for them) so I'm sure the menu and maybe the audio were improved since then, and maybe features have been updated.
I need good (but not perfect) sound in camera via LAVs, and the audio from the BMPCC (at least when it first came out) was unusable even when you hooked up a mic. Also, while not a necessity, I also enjoy having one battery last me half the day of normal shooting, or a couple hours of heavy shooting, where I was charging the battery on the BMPCC seemingly all the time, since the camera store I borrowed from only gave me the one battery. Then, shooting a fair number of interviews, punching in 80% (or 90% if I really need to, as no average person notices the quality start to drop) on 4k footage is a huge plus. The extra crop factor of the pocket cam made it hard to get wide enough at times, and made a number of my non stabilized lenses less useful. Eventually, had I used it long term, I would have bought the BMPCC speed booster, though.
So for me, unfortunately, the UI, short battery life, and terrible audio were killers. Plus being able to punch in up to about 80% is a huge plus for a lot of projects. I definitely wish the GH4 had the kind of dynamic range, image quality and of course option of shooting RAW found in the BMPCC. Maybe the GH5 IQ will catch up? There are obviously workarounds to these problems, and you just can't argue with the look of the BMPCC, but for me the function of the GH4 trumps the IQ of the BMPCC. It will be a tough choice between the GH5 and URSAMini4k as my next camera, or deciding to wait longer and continuing with my workhorse GH4.
I need good (but not perfect) sound in camera via LAVs, and the audio from the BMPCC (at least when it first came out) was unusable even when you hooked up a mic. Also, while not a necessity, I also enjoy having one battery last me half the day of normal shooting, or a couple hours of heavy shooting, where I was charging the battery on the BMPCC seemingly all the time, since the camera store I borrowed from only gave me the one battery. Then, shooting a fair number of interviews, punching in 80% (or 90% if I really need to, as no average person notices the quality start to drop) on 4k footage is a huge plus. The extra crop factor of the pocket cam made it hard to get wide enough at times, and made a number of my non stabilized lenses less useful. Eventually, had I used it long term, I would have bought the BMPCC speed booster, though.
So for me, unfortunately, the UI, short battery life, and terrible audio were killers. Plus being able to punch in up to about 80% is a huge plus for a lot of projects. I definitely wish the GH4 had the kind of dynamic range, image quality and of course option of shooting RAW found in the BMPCC. Maybe the GH5 IQ will catch up? There are obviously workarounds to these problems, and you just can't argue with the look of the BMPCC, but for me the function of the GH4 trumps the IQ of the BMPCC. It will be a tough choice between the GH5 and URSAMini4k as my next camera, or deciding to wait longer and continuing with my workhorse GH4.
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Dramatically so! The first iteration was not usable in a professional setting, I felt. BM has addressed every issue I had with the first release, and finally put forth a genuine cinema camera.
I get that. I had the same concerns about using the BMPCC. Ergonomically, the GH4 is hands down the winner.
But after using the BMPCC, I find I can live with it's ergonomic shortcomings more than I can deal with the GH4's image shortcomings.
Note that "proper exposure" for V-log internally is about 1-2 stops OVER the other profiles. V-log puts middle gray around 46% IRE so it's important to slightly overexpose the image to the right. This will greatly improve signal to noise in the shadows and mids (where the GH4 suffers the most).
Another thing to keep in mind is that recorded internally the image IS an 8bit 4:2:0 colorspace.....grading from Vlog with that very limited color space can really spell trouble for artifacts and macroblocking......I've also noticed from shooting the past 2 years with the GH4 is that the color science of the camera does not lend itself well to exposure changes in post.
If I were you I'd suggest renting or buying an Atomos Shogun or Assassin and testing out Vlog in 10bit 4:2:2.
Another thing to keep in mind is that recorded internally the image IS an 8bit 4:2:0 colorspace.....grading from Vlog with that very limited color space can really spell trouble for artifacts and macroblocking......I've also noticed from shooting the past 2 years with the GH4 is that the color science of the camera does not lend itself well to exposure changes in post.
If I were you I'd suggest renting or buying an Atomos Shogun or Assassin and testing out Vlog in 10bit 4:2:2.
Peter Berry
Well-known member
Jim, I don't know how you shot your GH4, but here are a couple of captures from a ceremony shooting in direct sunlight with good face exposures and no white clipping - either on the white program the first subject is holding flush to the sun, the off-white pants, or the multitude of white background boats. First capture at about 1:55.
UHD 30p on 1080p timeline, Standard "style" with -2/0/0/-2/-1 offsets, and Shadow/Hghlight curve of +2/-2. No PP at all.
https://vimeo.com/146020340
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Although the GH4 codec is very good amongst .H264 peers, ProRes trumps it every time. I remember having a hard time telling the difference between down scaled 8-bit 4:2:0 4K into 1080p vs ProRes 10-bit 4:2:2 at 1080p from a ninja recorder. I can imagine the GH4 internal recording against RAW is far worst. I'd take a ninja Asian for a rental before you decided to sell the GH4.
That was my experience as well, something RAW solves quite nicely.
That was also my experience. I was amazed at how much farther I could push the 10 bit 4:2:2 ProRes image compare to 8 bit 4:2:0 AVC.