Very Basic Questions

K

kat.hayes

Active member
I know absolutely nothing about color grading, though I understand the basics of color correcting in Photoshop using adjustment layers, Curves, etc. I want to use footage shot with an A7SII and color grade it to look more cinematic.

1. Is color grading video subjective in the same way as color grading a photo in that everyone might have a different opinion as how to approach making adjustments to it OR are there some objective guidelines that need to be followed for color grading video?

2. Can Photoshop be used to color grade footage using Curves and Gradient Maps? Is there a reason why a program like After Effects or DaVinci Resolve is a better option?

Thanks
 
1. yes, subjective, look at the 'teal and orange' mania.
2. as far as I know no, but then I stopped upgrading photoshop after version cs6. The principles are roughly the same in Davinci Resolve. If you know curves you already can do a lot of corrections in Davinci. And Davinci has 'nodes' that are a bit similar to layers.
Using Davinci for the first time can be a bit overwhelming but the short youtube learning clips from 'goats eye view' are brilliant.
 
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kat.hayes said:
1. Is color grading video subjective in the same way as color grading a photo in that everyone might have a different opinion as how to approach making adjustments to it OR are there some objective guidelines that need to be followed for color grading video?
Click to expand...
There are two stages in editing the look of a video:

1. Color Correcting

This is relatively objective, you must do the correct color space conversions, make a proper color balance, avoid crushing blacks or clipping highlights and adjust the contrast and overall gamma to get a pleasant starting image, that, unlike for individual photographs, must maintain realistic going from scene to scene.

2. Color grading

This is subjective and subject to style, whims, fashion etc.


kat.hayes said:
2. Can Photoshop be used to color grade footage using Curves and Gradient Maps? Is there a reason why a program like After Effects or DaVinci Resolve is a better option?
Click to expand...
I would advice to use the right tool for the job, you can hit a nail with a brick but a hammer is really the right tool to use.
 
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Thanks so much for the replies!

1. Can footage shot at the same resolution and frame rate from different cameras be color graded to look similar enough so it looks like it was shot from the same camera? Example footage from an A7SII, a 5DM3, a Sony RX100, iPhone, etc.

2. I use an xRite i1 color calibrator for my display to calibrate it when working with photos. Is this sufficient for calibrating when color grading video?

Thanks!
 
kat.hayes said:
Thanks so much for the replies!

1. Can footage shot at the same resolution and frame rate from different cameras be color graded to look similar enough so it looks like it was shot from the same camera? Example footage from an A7SII, a 5DM3, a Sony RX100, iPhone, etc.

2. I use an xRite i1 color calibrator for my display to calibrate it when working with photos. Is this sufficient for calibrating when color grading video?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

1. Yes, generally. It really depends on how the "footage" was captured and how much info is in it. There are some codecs that are more pliable than others and generally you will have to correct to your weakest one as you can't push/pull the color space as much as you can with the (better) footage from better cameras.

2. Yes, as the monitor is being calibrated, not just a single program. However, keep in mind, that once you start working on a project you might want to turn off features like automatic re-profiling as this could shift how you are grading.
 
All good advice above.

I would certainly try Davinci Resolve.. it is free of course - I find it almost better than Photoshop in terms of things like way bigger histogram (but use waveform its better still)

As a photoshop user.. this linguistic may be helpful..

Davinci - 'Node' - Photoshop - 'Layer'
 
kat.hayes said:
I know absolutely nothing about color grading, though I understand the basics of color correcting in Photoshop using adjustment layers, Curves, etc.
Click to expand...

Get the latest edition of Alexis Van Hurkman's book Color Correction Handbook. Despite its title it covers both color correction and color grading. Not only how, but why. It's an eminently readable book, and it's organization is just about perfect (for me anyway). I just read it front to back like a novel. Tells you everything you need to know, and most importantly it answers questions you don't yet know enough to ask. The first edition book that I have is also software agnostic, so it works for tools from Black Magic's DaVinci Resolve to the Adobe "suite".

IMHO, this book is the place to start. It's such a big and complex subject that it takes a book to discuss it.
 
kat.hayes said:
I know absolutely nothing about color grading, though I understand the basics of color correcting in Photoshop using adjustment layers, Curves, etc. I want to use footage shot with an A7SII and color grade it to look more cinematic.

1. Is color grading video subjective in the same way as color grading a photo in that everyone might have a different opinion as how to approach making adjustments to it OR are there some objective guidelines that need to be followed for color grading video?

2. Can Photoshop be used to color grade footage using Curves and Gradient Maps? Is there a reason why a program like After Effects or DaVinci Resolve is a better option?

Thanks
Click to expand...

1) There are certain the technical requirements that must be met to have professional-quality video, but once you have exceeded those standards there is an almost infinite range of choices that are purely subjective. That is where the "art" of color grading begins and it should be an enjoyable experience seeing your footage come alive.

2) Photshop does not even come close to meeting the requirements needed for grading video. Not even close!!! There would be so many shortcomings with trying to use Photoshop that I wouldn't even know where to begin explaining them to you. Could you cut down an oak tree with a butter knife, probably if you worked at it long enough, but why would you want to when you can have a chainsaw (DaVinci Resolve) for free? One of the biggest shortcomings is that Photoshop does not have a Waveform monitor and you cannot grade professional video without a waveform monitor and knowing how to use it. Resolve has an excellent waveform monitor built-in.
 
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kat.hayes said:
Thanks so much for the replies!

1. Can footage shot at the same resolution and frame rate from different cameras be color graded to look similar enough so it looks like it was shot from the same camera? Example footage from an A7SII, a 5DM3, a Sony RX100, iPhone, etc.

2. I use an xRite i1 color calibrator for my display to calibrate it when working with photos. Is this sufficient for calibrating when color grading video?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


1) They are never going to match completely, but you might be able to come close enough. It all depends on your expectations and standards.

2) It's a bad idea to try to grade video on a computer monitor. You need to output the video signal to a real video monitor so you can see what you are really getting. And that also means that calibration with an xRite or something similar is not needed. The monitor does not need to be a super expensive broadcast monitor, either. A good quality consumer LCD television can be good enough once it is setup properly and you've turned off a lot of the settings the manufacturers think people want. And getting the video signal out of the computer does not have to be hard. For example, if you are using a Mac all you need is a Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Mini Monitor Playback Device that works great with Resolve, Premiere, etc. Once you have started grading an editing with a real full-size, full-resolution program monitor you will wonder how you got a long without it.
 
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While I am learning to do this on my own, I’m looking into some LUTs for Premiere and DaVinci. Can good quality LUTs be used as a starting point for color grading and with some additional adjustments achieve good results? I use some presets in Lightroom as a starting point and adjust exposure and white balance to customize the look of a photo, and generally am happy with my results. Can I expect the same thing if working with LUTs?

Thanks.
 
And the LUTs that are built into Resolve might be all you need. I only use two LUTs, one for S-LOG2 and one for S-LOG3. That's it.
The S-LOG3 LUT is built into Resolve and the S-LOG2 LUT was a free download from Sony. Both of those LUTs will also work with Premiere, but I'd never grade S-LOG in Premiere. If you're going to dabble in S-LOG you need to use Resolve.
 
I am going to go in a different direction than others and say the Photoshop is fine for color-grading and occasionally a bit better than other tools.

I have been editing, correcting and color-grading for many years and find that you should go with whatever tool is available to do the job. I sometimes use Photoshop when correcting or grading difficult shots, particularly those with mixed lighting or that need complex gradients. The curves tool in PS allows me to pick a spot and adjust the curve by dragging on the video. I can also import and export curves in PS. Both capabilities that still do not exist in After Effect curves tools.

Note that it is more difficult to actually edit clips together in PS and some compositing functions are easier in AE.


Jim
Colorburst Video
 
Jim, do you know how to use DaVinci Resolve, and have you tried grading video there instead of Photohop? I ask because if your only point of reference is After Effects and Photoshop, how do you know what you are missing? And how many shots are your running through Photoshop, just a handful at a time or hundreds? And can you edit first in Premiere and then export your entire timeline to Photoshop for grading, and then send it back to Resolve? Are you monitoring what you are doing in Photoshop on a real video monitor or just a computer monitor? What are you using for a Waveforrm monitor during grading? Are you grading LOG footage? Also, I'm wondering if you can name any professional colorists who use Photoshop for color grading, because I would love to speak to them to find out what I'm missing.
 
Doug Jensen said:
And the LUTs that are built into Resolve might be all you need. I only use two LUTs, one for S-LOG2 and one for S-LOG3. That's it.
The S-LOG3 LUT is built into Resolve and the S-LOG2 LUT was a free download from Sony. Both of those LUTs will also work with Premiere, but I'd never grade S-LOG in Premiere. If you're going to dabble in S-LOG you need to use Resolve.
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1. Why would you never grade S-LOG in Premiere?
2. What are the names of the LUTs that you use? I will try them out.

Thanks!
 
It would take me too much time to give you a run down of all ways Resolve is superior to Premiere for color grading. Suffice it to say that Resolve is a color grading application by heart and Premiere is an editor. There's been a convergence in recent years, but heritage still shows. Lumetri is really just a primary correction tool with some basic secondaries tucked on. You can do masks and stick Lumetri on layers, but it's nowhere near the power of Resolve secondary corrections, nodes, scopes, rendering options, monitoring modes, and power window features. And even if you could get the same look out of both programs, I absolutely guarantee that Resolve would be faster and easier to accomplish the grading. Time is money.

The LUTs I use for S-LOG:

S-LOG3: SGamutCineSlog3_to_LC-709TypeA
S-LOG2: From_Slog3SGmut_to_LC-709TypeA
 
Thanks for the clarification. I just wasn't sure if you meant that you would never use Premiere for Color Grading or just that you wouldn't grade S-Log in Premiere for some reason. If I end up purchasing LUTs, are there any things I should look for in quality ones for Premiere or DaVinci? I will likely get some for Premiere right now while I learn Davinci. I started looking into these https://www.colorgradingcentral.com/hollywood-lut-bundle

Thanks for your help.
 
I don't have any recommendations for LUTs other the the two for S-LOG. Although I have tried quite a few LUTs just to experiment with them, I haven't found anything that wasn't something I could do better by hand in just a few seconds-- and with much more control over the style. Many of the LUTs you'll find are just gimmicks to give your video a blue, or cool, or washed out, or very contrasty, etc. look that really aren't very useful in real productions. Besides, once you learn Resolve you really don't need any LUTs to give your video a "look". Just create the look you want yourself. I would venture to say that a lot of people who use LUTs to create a "look" for their video are just using them because they don't want to take the time to actually learn Resolve and do the grading properly. They just slap the same LUT on every shot and call it good. I know that isn't always the case, but I would bet the majority of the time it is.
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/resolve
 
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Doug,

The original question was, "Can Photoshop be used to color grade footage using Curves and Gradient Maps?" I stand by my statement that using Photoshop can produce acceptable results. It might also be an excellent way to begin learning the craft without spending lots of additional dollars.

Can the job be easier or quicker using the latest high-end tools with massive computing power/memory, control-surfaces, stand-alone scopes, and finely calibrated monitors - certainly! And of course, I prefer working in high-end suites. I would never choose to "export an entire timeline to Photoshop for grading and then send it back to my editor." But I could do it and can get pretty good results using tools other than Resolve.

The majority of the results come from the SKILL, not the tool. I have had excellent results using any number of tools. And the answer to your other questions is "yes" (although I've never tried to work with LOG footage in Photoshop.)


Jim
 
PShop is clearly a powerful tool.. but Davinci is free and much better for basic video grading.

I would personally only go to PS for very specialised jobs (to be fair Im not using a current version of Photoshop)
 
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