VaricamLT: Varicam LT for Solo Owner-Operator?

Mitch
An Idea you could pass on to your Development team. Varicam LT Raw to 4k ProRes. Pretty sure your FPGA has the horsepower to do it.
Upside for you/ well the guys who want an LT but can't do or don't want to Do P2 cards can go to the 7Q+ and a few SSD and call it a day.
Just throwing it out there, Everybody wins.
 
jaypass said:
Well, from a user-review standpoint, I'm pretty much sold. Everyone here who has used one has nothing but good things to say about it, and it certainly seems versatile enough for my needs. Just need to decide for my own purposes if the image and ergonomics is worth the price jump from an FS7. And yes - Thanks to Noel, I'm going to get a hands-on look at the end of the month! Thanks again Noel for working that out for me - I'm pretty pumped about it.

In terms of weight, the difference between the LT and FS7 seems pretty minimal? A fully kitted FS7 comes out to what, 10-12lbs? Varicam is probably a few more then that. I lugged an FS7/sticks around a couple miles on foot for a shoot earlier this summer....Not my favorite part of the job, but I think I could handle a couple more lbs.

I agree that the big thing is going to be accessories. The body price of the Varicam is stretching my budget a little more then I was planning after considering the FS7 all summer, but I'm happy to stretch for the RIGHT camera. I'll have to make some budget choices on accessories until the camera pays for itself though. Is everyone here using the Panny EVF? I might go Gratical Eye, at least for the initial purchase...Do I lose a lot of functionality with the third party EVF? I already have Zacuto's VCT shoulder mount, so I should be good there. After that I just need media and batts. If this camera really does the job for me, it should be my last camera purchase for at least 4-5 years. So I see it as a $5,000/yr investment, even though I'm paying it all upfront. My AF100 lasted 4 solid years - just sold it on eBay last month for the grand total of $600, which is hysterical.

Someone mentioned the F5 - Budget-wise it's a better fit, but I don't love the thought of buying 4-year old tech. Feels like it will be obsolete much sooner.

I'm not ready to take the plunge yet, but I'm looking forward to the hands-on test in 2 weeks. I'll have to see how things pan out for me financially as the year closes, but I should be able to go all in on the LT before the end of winter. And maybe by then Panny will reintroduce the 0% financing deal, or even a rebate? Wishful thinking?
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regarding the weight concerns, to be objective you need to look the builds of the cameras. I owned an FS7 for 2 weeks and promptly returned it primarily because of the build quality. The varicam LT is perfectly ballanced for hand held use. with any lens (disclaimer I own the PRo EX package so I am using the Panny base-plate that slides and lets you counter balance the camera perfectly). if you are shooting hand held then that might honestly be a reason to consider the Panny viewfinder. Not only is it better than everything out there that I have tried, for your application the user buttons on the view finder will be priceless. You are able to control all the cameras functions right from the side of the EVF without taking your eyes off the evf.

to give you an objective view of where I'm comming from when I discuss the varicam build. here is my camera ownership history

HVX200
RED ONE
AF100
HPX170
SONY F3
Panasonic HMC150
Panasonic AC160
RED EPIC/Scarlet
BlackMagic Cinema Camera 2.5 and 4k models
Sony FS7 (2 weeks)
GH2
GH3
Sony A7s
Sony A7s 11
SONY F5

current:
Panasonic GH4
Kinefity Kinemax 6k and Terra
VAricam LT

of all the cameras on this list the only camera That I have rented out and feel comfortable Renting out is the VARICAM LT. Even the sony F5 was fragile in comparison.
 
There is a trade off between mass and 'build quality' - which elements of th FS7 build quality where unacceptable?

I get that the FS7 feels a bit plastic but has anyone broken one yet? Does plastic actually bounce better than metal which cracks.. that is the case for car fenders.

Clearly the lens mount is not robust, and if one is considering cine zooms one should not use and FS7.. but the rest of the camera seems to work.


(oh Im not talking about the EVF, top or side handles.. I junked all of them :) )
 
morgan_moore said:
There is a trade off between mass and 'build quality' - which elements of th FS7 build quality where unacceptable?

I get that the FS7 feels a bit plastic but has anyone broken one yet? Does plastic actually bounce better than metal which cracks.. that is the case for car fenders.

Clearly the lens mount is not robust, and if one is considering cine zooms one should not use and FS7.. but the rest of the camera seems to work.


(oh Im not talking about the EVF, top or side handles.. I junked all of them :) )
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Well i don't have much to say since you've essentially answered your own question, Lens mount! LCD, top handle, side handles, general plastic feel.
Lens mount in particular gets warped easily even when using a lens support with the lens.
 
sean007davis said:
Mitch
An Idea you could pass on to your Development team. Varicam LT Raw to 4k ProRes. Pretty sure your FPGA has the horsepower to do it.
Upside for you/ well the guys who want an LT but can't do or don't want to Do P2 cards can go to the 7Q+ and a few SSD and call it a day.
Just throwing it out there, Everybody wins.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.
 
sean007davis said:
Mitch
An Idea you could pass on to your Development team. Varicam LT Raw to 4k ProRes. Pretty sure your FPGA has the horsepower to do it.
Upside for you/ well the guys who want an LT but can't do or don't want to Do P2 cards can go to the 7Q+ and a few SSD and call it a day.
Just throwing it out there, Everybody wins.
Click to expand...

I would love this! Make me consider saving the money on P2 cards and grabbing the 7Q+ instead. I hope there is something similar in development similar to what you have with FS RAW with all of the options for the Varicam LT.
 
sean007davis said:
Mitch
An Idea you could pass on to your Development team. Varicam LT Raw to 4k ProRes. Pretty sure your FPGA has the horsepower to do it.
Upside for you/ well the guys who want an LT but can't do or don't want to Do P2 cards can go to the 7Q+ and a few SSD and call it a day.
Just throwing it out there, Everybody wins.
Click to expand...

+1
 
sean007davis said:
Well i don't have much to say since you've essentially answered your own question, Lens mount! LCD, top handle, side handles, general plastic feel.
Lens mount in particular gets warped easily even when using a lens support with the lens.
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Lens mount!

You only need a decent lens mount if you are using heavy glass - the OP may not be.

The emount FFD is very versatile allowing a speedbooster and a wide selection of lenses, and can be rigged for PL

Incidentally we are just tooling up for a shoot on the ursa 4.6kPL and our cine lenses are creating some problems in that we have no option for going to lighter stills glass for steadycam or gimbal work. The big glass is just a little beyond my grip environment. We will have no option to use any 'speciality' lenses, specifically my 14 2.8 or my 400 2.8, or 200mm macro that offer perspectives that the cine set does not.

LCD, top handle, side handles,

These must all be replaced - the only cost to this (beyond finance) is the loss of audio 3 and 4.

general plastic feel

Ive never heard of a failure of the FS7 body - my 'plastic sony cameras' have never mechanically let me down in a decade ex1, fs100, fs7, f3, yes ive broken and NEX5. Should one entertain a fail a local rental would be more straightforward than the Varicam. The cost of owning a spare is far more viable (and useful)

==

Im not an FS7 fanboy. It is just a tool. I just I think for true solo operation it bears serious consideration simply on the battle to reduce mass. Ive entertained purchase of Red and F5/55 but both were too heavy. the big vari is clearly a joke (for solo use) Ive not tried the small one.

Of course there are reasons to choose the vari, TCin, robust codec, whatever, but one needs a very specific reason to choose it.

--

The OP mentioned the camera lasting 4-5 years. Yes physically no problem. But 'next week' we could get a 500-1000 fps fs8, C400 or whatever that will have serious appeal to producers. It is no good if it functions but is never used - it becomes a fabulous door stop like those $50000 betacams.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Lens mount!

The OP mentioned the camera lasting 4-5 years. Yes physically no problem. But 'next week' we could get a 500-1000 fps fs8, C400 or whatever that will have serious appeal to producers. It is no good if it functions but is never used - it becomes a fabulous door stop like those $50000 betacams.

S
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I agree to some extent but not completely. Let's say a new camera is announced with 500-1000 fps or whatever, it actually doesn't make the Varicam LT a less good camera. Since you mentioned high frame rates, the first thing that comes to mind is: how often does anyone actually shoot in that frame rate range?
Most of the time you'll probably shoot in regular frame rates or under 120 fps. The problem with slow motion is light, as I'm sure you're aware of, so until someone comes up with a camera that can internally deal with the loss of light it's still difficult to shoot in HFR even if you have a camera that can do it, and even then I'm not sure that HFR in that range will be used so often.

If a camera with better DR, low light capabilities and colour reproduction is announced that also can shoot higher frame rates, then of course the Varicam LT will become a less attractive option. But, the images will still look good. I'm pretty sure that Sony will release something really interesting next year, but how much more interesting, what will it cost and will it be better at everything? Compared to what's out there today the Varicam LT is actually not that expensive for what it can do and if you need a camera now, all you can compare to is what's available now. As we all know it can take a while until a camera is actually available after an announcement, and it can take even longer until bugs or unfinished firmware is fixed.

As you can see i didn't mention higher resolution above. Although RED is going in that direction (and probably the rest too), I think it'll take a couple of years until the prices drop enough for 8K to become an option for others than high budget productions, partly because it probably requires so much more from the post workflow.

But then again, the FS7 seems to be a really good camera with a very competitive price.
 
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Well on frame rates I pretty much bump up to HFR as soon as Im handholding a telephoto when RnG-ing. (yep not much above 120)

Incidentally I believe this framerate change is a laborious process on the Vari , it takes about 5 seconds to engage HFR on the FS7 which is about 4.95 seconds too long and leads to missed shots (Im not joking)

A reboot to engage HFR would make the camera a non starter for doco work IMO.

--

It is completely correct that a 24/25/30p camera that makes a nice image is good for 'ever' in terms of making emotive motion pictures. However producers book the 'latest and greatest' even when 90% of the time other tools would have sufficed or been better.

--

My fundamental point to the OP is that IMO for solo opping mass is a killer and that give the FS7 huge kudos, also detailing like audio pots and speedy - ish engagement of HFR are helpful.

Clearly a bunch of cameras shoot prettier than the FS7 from Red, Vari, Alexa and even BMC in the right conditions. But the FS7 is pretty pretty at a mere .5tb per day (the other cameras burn 2TB a day)

The OP should rent the camera and use it for a 12hours stint (and then download before going home). His mind will then be made up.

 
You make very good points and I agree with you. On the other hand, if you really want a certain image quality, you'll learn to live with some of the shortcomings or work around them. Regarding the HFR on the Varicam LT, yes it takes a while. Hopefully Panasonic will come with a firmware upgrade that'll use line skipping instead of cropping the sensor, which in turn maybe will make it possible to change frame rates to at least 120 fps without cropping the sensor or having to change the mode.

Another thing I'd like is if it would record sound while in 23.97p, 25p or 30p mode but with the lite codec, and that it disables audio recording only when you choose a faster/slower frame rate. Now it can only record audio to the proxy card in that mode, which complicates the workflow a bit.
 
morgan_moore said:
Lens mount!



These must all be replaced - the only cost to this (beyond finance) is the loss of audio 3 and 4.

general plastic feel

Ive never heard of a failure of the FS7 body - my 'plastic sony cameras' have never mechanically let me down in a decade ex1, fs100, fs7, f3, yes ive broken and NEX5. Should one entertain a fail a local rental would be more straightforward than the Varicam. The cost of owning a spare is far more viable (and useful)

==

Im not an FS7 fanboy. It is just a tool. I just I think for true solo operation it bears serious consideration simply on the battle to reduce mass. Ive entertained purchase of Red and F5/55 but both were too heavy. the big vari is clearly a joke (for solo use) Ive not tried the small one.

Of course there are reasons to choose the vari, TCin, robust codec, whatever, but one needs a very specific reason to choose it.

--

The OP mentioned the camera lasting 4-5 years. Yes physically no problem. But 'next week' we could get a 500-1000 fps fs8, C400 or whatever that will have serious appeal to producers. It is no good if it functions but is never used - it becomes a fabulous door stop like those $50000 betacams.

S
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Following this Logic the Alexa and the Arri cameras should be dead in tha market, I mean they should have been dead 3-4 years ago. last I checked that was not the case. They don't do HFR and the ALEV 3 sensor peaks at 3.4k, but with no HFR arri is and a sensor from 2010 Arri is still "killing it" so I guess the producers and the client with the budgets aren't really that concerned. The only place I see the ARRI being replaced is in t he NETFLIX and AMAZON content market that require DCI 4k aquisition, and they aren't being replaced with Sonys or black magics. I live and work In NYC where a good chunk of the netflix shows are shot and I can tell You that all Alexa shows have gone to the Varicam because of the sensor.
So simply put a great sensor in a camera that creates images will win and survive all the time, and if you ask around particularly among seasoned ARRI shooters the Varicam sensor is the only thing in the market delivering the image.
I've owned mine since may/june and I have not been in a situation where I needed to go above 4k 60p in the same setup or shot. Frankly anything over 120 that isn't a specifically designed shot is like watching paint dry.
I'm of the Geoff Boyle school of thought that if you need extreme HFR you you bring out a high speed camera.
If I'm honest anyone complaining about the Varicam LT price isn't in the market for a varicam LT, the cameras isn't expensive, the cameras I compare the varicam LT are the ARRI lot and an AMIRA and And ALEXA mini will run you double at the bare minimum. If were talking about getting the best cameras then the numbers start at the price of the VAricam LT $16,500.00
for those willing to compromise to save money and looking at trumped up specs there are other options.
I've put the varicam up againt other cameras claiming 15 stops of DR etc and it's won every time. I just won 500 quid in a wager this weekend against a camera that claims to deliver more at lower price point. I shot Avc intra 4k, the other camera shot in RAW. Varicam LT with a compressed codec ran laps around the other said 15+ stop of DR camera that was shooting RAW. to be polite I'll say the LT beat it by 4 stops handily (and again I can't help mentioning this was the LT shooting compressed).

Frankly DR and color science (image quality) beats numbers on a spec sheet, which generally never translates to the actual images.
The FS7 and the other sonys are great cameras but after having owned both an FS7 and and an F5 (one of my clients still has an F55 in house that I shoot) but they do not even warrant comparison to the Varicam S35 cameras (Varicam 35,Varicam LT and Varicam pure).
The other camera fit a niche the deliver specs on a spec sheet at a certain price point, that great for people looking for just that.

I didn't even touch on HDR, another thing that NetFlix and other 4k content markets are looking for these days.
I frankly don't see this camera being a door stop in 3-5 years, MY F5 lasted that long even with sony canibalising their own prenium line of product, which I don't see panasonic doing.
 
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Sean, you've all but summed up why I bought a Varicam.

morgan_moore said:
Well on frame rates I pretty much bump up to HFR as soon as Im handholding a telephoto when RnG-ing. (yep not much above 120)

Incidentally I believe this framerate change is a laborious process on the Vari , it takes about 5 seconds to engage HFR on the FS7 which is about 4.95 seconds too long and leads to missed shots (Im not joking)

A reboot to engage HFR would make the camera a non starter for doco work IMO.
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Well there is a camera touted for doc that will do that with a sensor in a similar class as the VaricamLT and thats the Arri Amira. Body only = 35K. Maxes out at 2k and lowlight is a non starter maxing at 3200EI if you don't mind all the extra noise. I'd say at 800 ISO the Alexa XT sensor the Amira uses is probably one of the best going around image wise, but it's made hungry for light. Haven't seen a new SXT, so can't comment.

The FS7 can achieve this through the short cuts it takes on image quality. Those short cuts aren't available on the Varicam cameras. I have actually asked them to be made available (in part to moot this argument), but the question has never been given a definitive no or yes. The Varicam achieves over crank frame rates in a way that preserves image quality as the key objective.

Personally I can't see myself ever shooting over 120FPS for any application (for me that's actually mostly 100 as Im in 50Hz country). Others may, but I'm talking about what I do. And there's a number of reasons for that. First one Sean alluded to, I often don't see the purpose as more is too slow for what I need. I rarely do anything sport related. Well I do shoot the bumpers for the ATP Tennis players once a year that are used for global broadcast, but that's always a RED job(at 120fps) per producers request. 120fps is generally max for TVC's. Also, when shooting under lights @ 4k / 25fps / 800ISO, I can switch to 2k / 100fps over 25 and to maintain the same exposure just switch to 5000 ISO base and lower down to 3200 ISO and done. Sure you can do this on any other camera that goes to 5000ISO or higher, but the Varicams are the only cameras doing this that will be actually doing it from a native ISO and applying negative gain (ISO is gain, which Im sure you're aware of).

FWIW I'm not saying what your'e saying is incorrect. I just think we have different priorities.
 
Noel Evans said:
Sean, you've all but summed up why I bought a Varicam.

Personally I can't see myself ever shooting over 120FPS for any application (for me that's actually mostly 100 as Im in 50Hz country). Others may, but I'm talking about what I do. And there's a number of reasons for that. First one Sean alluded to, I often don't see the purpose as more is too slow for what I need. I rarely do anything sport related. Well I do shoot the bumpers for the ATP Tennis players once a year that are used for global broadcast, but that's always a RED job(at 120fps) per producers request.

FWIW I'm not saying what you're saying is incorrect. I just think we have different priorities.
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I have seen the NEW SXT and can comment. Like all ARRI ALEV sensor cameras the image is great but Varicam beats it in Low light (this is actually a quote from an ARRI engineer, ARRI also admitted that they test all the competition against the ALEXAs every year and that since the ALEXA Classic the only cameras they
have tested that made them consider the cameras legitimate competition has been the Varicam 35 in Arris own in house 2015 test, they tested the Sony F55, the RED EPIC DRAGON and the VARICAM 35 )

I shoot sport and the RED is generally the standard request although I have recently been able to replace the Epic with the Kinefinity Cameras (4k 100 RAW and 150 in 3k which I have never used ).
the FS700 and FS7 has been evaluated for high speed use (because there are always client reading blogs and trying to cut corners) but they've never held u against the REDs at HFR. So those High speed jobs that don't require a phantom I use a RED. but that's a once a month boxing gig and the entire thing is shot at 100fps or 120fps. I never shoot regular frame rates so in essence that boxing gig is a high speed job.

I really think it boils down to priorities, if what you are shooting require the best image quality then it's a really simple choices.
 
Chaps - I get that the vari is an amazing camera - I'm sure the image is a lot prettier than the fs7 - but this thread was posted by an a poster asking about solo owner operator camera - my personal opinion is that it and proper sticks and a few decent lenses and a couple of vlocks is not a pleasant day out if you are not working as part of a team - at mini mum someone to lug the sticks
the thread is not about Netflix acquisition or suchlike .

---
im just starting a job on an ursa and the 1st told me it has 15 of Dr - I replied more like five - I'm not a paper sec bloke :)
 
Milan O. said:
Here's a 4K 25p file in V-log that I shot today between actual takes, if anyone is interested to compare the image/codec to another camera:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/22w1q1n1pfvgcxd/A011C019_161017_C609.MXF?dl=0
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Thanks for posting. I graded to taste in Resolve Studio ACES 1.0 using the Panasonic V35 IDT just to make it look better to me, then found a comparable SLOG2 scene with my F55 and about the same grade. Both shots are serviceable if unremarkable. If anything, the Panny is clean in the shadows and the Sony has more recoverable highlights. There is not enough difference that anyone should get worked into a lather, both can do the job.

Varicam_graded_1.1.1_1.1.1.jpgSonyF55_1.3.2.jpg
 
For any of the VariCam LT owners here who may also own an Odyssey7Q+ or Odyssey7Q, after a slight delay we have officially posted the newest firmware update which includes support for recording VariCam LT RAW. All of the RAW data is recorded in CinemaDNG for use in programs such as Premiere, Resolve and Scratch Lab.

VariCam LT RAW support is part of the Odyssey RAW Bundle. If your Odyssey unit does not have the RAW Bundle activated, with the latest firmware the VariCam LT RAW support is available in a demo mode. It is completely functional but will place a blue line watermark across the frame both in monitoring and in the recorded file. This allows one to test the functionality and workflow before purchase. Purchase is available as a one-time unit-lifetime for $995 or a 24-hour daily rental for $99.


Supported formats:
4K 12-bit up to 29.97p
UHD 12-bit up to 29.97p
4K 10-bit up to 59.94p
UHD 10-bit up to 59.94
VariFrame (VFR) from 2-60fps
 
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