VaricamLT: Varicam LT for Solo Owner-Operator?

jaypass

jaypass

Well-known member
This camera caught my eye recently and I've been doing some research. I found lots of positive reviews from earlier this year, but I'm not seeing a ton of real world experiences or recent sample work from solo owner operators. I'm curious - Is anyone out there using this camera on independent music video, commercial, or corporate work with small-to-no crew? What about run&gun event work? There's very little talk about it on social media, especially compared with the FS7 or the URSA Mini. Vimeo searches turn up a surprisingly small amount of results. Even this this section of DVXUser is very quiet compared to other camera discussions.

I'd love to get my hands on an LT for a test run, but it's hard to even find one. My local rental house doesn't have one because no one ever asks about it...Which is also weird. Why am I not seeing the camera out and about more? Price? Is it being used exclusively on higher-end tv and film projects?

Right now I have a GH4, which I'm content with. But as my business grows and I take on bigger and more challenging projects, I find myself wishing I had something with built in NDs, XLRs, etc...I've been flirting with the FS7, rented it a few times....But I'm not sold yet, and I'd like to explore other options. The samples I have seen from the LT look great...but how many people here own the LT, and what kind of work do you do with it? Is this camera worth a serious look for a solo owner-operator?
 
I've always thought the same and I think it's a "Varicam curse", haha. (The old ones were super popular.)

People certainly use them, but not as much as the Canons or the Sonys.

It has so many features that I think it only comes down to the price. I think if this camera was at $10K or less, it would be much more popular, but people just aren't willing to spend that much money with so many other options. Many are probably content with their Blackmagics or mirrorless'/DSLRs.

I understand that not everyone is on forums and/or not all content goes on Vimeo/YouTube, but you can find hundreds of videos on almost every other camera in the world, and the Varicam LT has barely anything.

There are several users on this forum who have many good things to say about it, but it's just not a popular camera IMO.
 
jaypass said:
This camera caught my eye recently and I've been doing some research. I found lots of positive reviews from earlier this year, but I'm not seeing a ton of real world experiences or recent sample work from solo owner operators. I'm curious - Is anyone out there using this camera on independent music video, commercial, or corporate work with small-to-no crew? What about run&gun event work? There's very little talk about it on social media, especially compared with the FS7 or the URSA Mini. Vimeo searches turn up a surprisingly small amount of results. Even this this section of DVXUser is very quiet compared to other camera discussions.

I'd love to get my hands on an LT for a test run, but it's hard to even find one. My local rental house doesn't have one because no one ever asks about it...Which is also weird. Why am I not seeing the camera out and about more? Price? Is it being used exclusively on higher-end tv and film projects?

Right now I have a GH4, which I'm content with. But as my business grows and I take on bigger and more challenging projects, I find myself wishing I had something with built in NDs, XLRs, etc...I've been flirting with the FS7, rented it a few times....But I'm not sold yet, and I'd like to explore other options. The samples I have seen from the LT look great...but how many people here own the LT, and what kind of work do you do with it? Is this camera worth a serious look for a solo owner-operator?
Click to expand...

It certainly seems a level above the FS7, and is more probably in that F55 range. The problem is that it becomes a bit murky whether that's a rental house, or owner operator, price range. It's certainly a camera that would be great for any high quality project, and has a more robust image than the FS7. But at your level the FS7 is kind of the stepping stone in between, where it's like the GH4 in that it's good enough so it's hard to justify something with more range unless the price is no object because you're making enough money to get what you want. Then at that price range, there's the Amira, ect. It's one of those decisions where you need to decide: I need a better image, for myself. I don't think the economics work out too easily, unless you're doing high quality doc work.

All that being said, I'd rather have a LT than an Amira, especially for the price, and I'd probably think about the V35 hard if it came up as an option against the Alexa SXT. It's just a question of exactly how you're gonna be able to make back that money though. Business wise I'd get any Alexa, and have a better chance on the rental market.
 
NorBro said:
It has so many features that I think it only comes down to the price. I think if this camera was at $10K or less, it would be much more popular, but people just aren't willing to spend that much money with so many other options. Many are probably content with their Blackmagics or mirrorless'/DSLRs.
Click to expand...

I totally agree - If I could get a full ready to shoot package for the $16,500 body-only price, it would be much more attractive. But for a $20,000+ shooting package, I need to be blown away by the image because feature wise it's not quite double the camera the FS7 is. The FS7 isn't blowing me away either though, so I'm trying to do some due diligence on the LT...And the stuff I've seen really is great. But it's so hard to make that decision when it's this hard to find one to test.
 
What bothers me the most about it is the control panel on the back, ha.

A lot of times ergonomics make or break a camera for people (as silly as it sounds), and I really just hate that thing. If it was built into the camera on the side and the body was the same price as the C300 Mark II and took CFast cards, I would have already owned one.

It's the little things...
 
IanTheM said:
It certainly seems a level above the FS7, and is more probably in that F55 range. The problem is that it becomes a bit murky whether that's a rental house, or owner operator, price range. It's certainly a camera that would be great for any high quality project, and has a more robust image than the FS7. But at your level the FS7 is kind of the stepping stone in between, where it's like the GH4 in that it's good enough so it's hard to justify something with more range unless the price is no object because you're making enough money to get what you want. Then at that price range, there's the Amira, ect. It's one of those decisions where you need to decide: I need a better image, for myself. I don't think the economics work out too easily, unless you're doing high quality doc work.

All that being said, I'd rather have a LT than an Amira, especially for the price, and I'd probably think about the V35 hard if it came up as an option against the Alexa SXT. It's just a question of exactly how you're gonna be able to make back that money though. Business wise I'd get any Alexa, and have a better chance on the rental market.
Click to expand...

Pretty much the debate I'm having. I could really sit on the GH4 for another year, maybe get my HDMI port fixed and get an external recorder to give it new life until the next product cycle brings new options. But I've been in a few situations where I had to rent to get a better tool for the job this year, so I figured now was a good time to at least explore some options. The Varicam is definitely an attractive one.
 
NorBro said:
What bothers me the most about it is the control panel on the back, ha.

A lot of times ergonomics make or break a camera for people (as silly as it sounds), and I really just hate that thing. If it was built into the camera on the side and the body was the same price as the C300 Mark II and took CFast cards, I would have already owned one.

It's the little things...
Click to expand...

Ha! Ergonomics is definitely make or break...and the control panel is one of the things I really like about the Varicam. It seems so versatile...Move it wherever you want, even use it as a monitor if you're in a bind. But again, without having my hands on it, who knows. Maybe it's not as useful as it seems.

Ergonomics is actually the primary reason I want to get away from my GH4. So sick of what it takes to get that thing to a decent form for some of the event work I do.
 
You should check out some reviews about the LT if you haven't yet...changing formats and monitoring audio isn't a picnic...

I recommend LensRentals to test one out if you can.
 
I've read them all - That audio thing is inexplicable. But one of the reviews I read said they were addressing it via firmware. I'm not sure what a firmware fix could do to fix the lack of physical audio pots though. And that seems like the only big problem with the camera for me - I can probably deal with the reboot times.

I saw that LensRentals had it, wasn't sure how that worked though - They don't require a deposit for an item that expensive? Seems like a crazy business model. I'll give it a look.
 
If you have a good history with them then they should work with you...I think they would "reject" an order for such an expensive item from someone new and/or without insurance to cover it.
 
NorBro said:
You should check out some reviews about the LT if you haven't yet...changing formats and monitoring audio isn't a picnic...

I recommend LensRentals to test one out if you can.
Click to expand...

A couple of notes here. First, I've been using the Varicam LT since before release and the Varicam 35 before that.

Changing formats. In practice I haven't found the start up time to be much of an issue. Sure, I'd like it to be faster but a lot would be dependant on how you work. The process isn't too hard.

Choose your system mode > Choose your frequency > Choose your resolution > Choose your codec (also choose a proxy codec if you're recording one). Restart > Choose your frame rate and your ready. Any subsequent changes to frame rate within that don't require restarting.

On audio. Firmware has been updated so the iris dial can now be used as the recording volume control which simplifies the process.

NorBro said:
I've always thought the same and I think it's a "Varicam curse", haha. (The old ones were super popular.)

People certainly use them, but not as much as the Canons or the Sonys.

It has so many features that I think it only comes down to the price. I think if this camera was at $10K or less, it would be much more popular, but people just aren't willing to spend that much money with so many other options. Many are probably content with their Blackmagics or mirrorless'/DSLRs.

I understand that not everyone is on forums and/or not all content goes on Vimeo/YouTube, but you can find hundreds of videos on almost every other camera in the world, and the Varicam LT has barely anything.

There are several users on this forum who have many good things to say about it, but it's just not a popular camera IMO.
Click to expand...

I'd add regardless of any factors, the Varicam's were a little late in the scheme of things. Not tech wise, but every other S35 camera had been out for awhile on release of LT (ignoring the 4K for a moment talking specifically S35). Therefor it has a little more work to do to prove itself before it can really get moving. There's a slew of new projects being shot on it for Netflix etc (Orange is the new black and so on). Charles Papert who posts here regularly (whom we are lucky to have I might add), shot MTV's Mary and Jane on the Varicam platform plus other new works. So it is getting there.

There is a price difference up from the C300MKII to the Varicam LT. Only the individual can determine if that's worthwhile to them, however I'd say in my humble opinion that if you have the ability to pay that extra then it's definitely worth it. The C300MKII is a good camera. At this point if you're saying certain cameras aren't any good you're probably kidding yourself. They all differ in offerings, sensor and look but are all capable of doing good work. For me its about two key areas. Skin tone and low light shooting ( Still using the same number of lamps, but cheaper because of lower output. ) Also there's a note to add we've all heard: the right camera for the job - If I want to shoot 120 FPS in 4K Im hiring Red for that. If I want the best skin tones I can deliver, I use the LT for that (this one's IMO).

Finally I'm looking to get more client work made available soon. It's a bit of some don't some do.
 
jaypass said:
but how many people here own the LT, and what kind of work do you do with it? Is this camera worth a serious look for a solo owner-operator?
Click to expand...

I have one of course and there's a few of us over here in Aus that do, I'd then a assume there's quite a few more out in the wild in the US. I know of a few scenarios here of operators switching from F5's to the LT. I often do solo work and like the camera for that purpose. My work varies a great deal job to job. Large corporate, doc pieces, TVC and narrative, online marketing content etc. Again, I'll be trying to share more of those things in the coming months.
 
Noel, I've seen your love for the Varicams over the years - I hear you.

Of course it's a good camera...but it's been a while now and if the 35 didn't make a splash, the LT will not make a splash IMO.

"Orange is the New Black" also uses Alexas.

Skin tones and low-light is not good enough in 2016.
 
For the one-man-band ops, it's kind of hard to beat C300MKII for the price in the $9,000-$20,000 price range.

Of course, for the money, the "entry level" XT2, EM1 MKII and the incoming GH5 really deliver a tremendous bang for the buck. The Olympus and the Panasonic models will have an additional advantage of the MFT glass. AF photo-video Canon lenses are also reasonably priced. With LT, Red Raven/Scarlet W, F5/55, ARRI, one is moving into the PL glass territory.
 
NorBro said:
Noel, I've seen your love for the Varicams over the years - I hear you.

Of course it's a good camera...but it's been a while now and if the 35 didn't make a splash, the LT will not make a splash IMO.

"Orange is the New Black" also uses Alexas.

Skin tones and low-light is not good enough in 2016.
Click to expand...

Orange is the new black started out on Alexas, however switched to Varicam when the 4K requirements came into action.

Skin tones and low light is not good enough in 2016? Well they clearly are to some, so thats a fairly subjective thing to say as fact. I was talking about the Varicam with Don McAlpine ACS, ASC http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005791/

and one of the things he put me on to with the Varicam, as he's a very clever man, was that with the ability of shooting ISO 5000 native, was that he could do a CU on someone and actually see the iris in their eye behaving as you would see them naturally as opposed to heavy lighting closing them down. That's one example of shooting low light not related to needing to shoot lower wattage that can make a difference to the outcome. Skin tones are the bread and butter of most things I do. Skin tones are crucial to me and many of the people I work for. Thats exactly the reason I loved the original cinema EOS sensor. Actually still love that sensor. Varicam has its measure however. Yes, I love working with the Varicam. Especially the LT. I think its easily one of the best cameras Ive worked with. Now can I use it to shoot 4K @ 120fps? Of course not. Thank god for Red. But 80% of what I do includes standard frame rates upto 60fps and doesn't require anymore (though I can do 2k to 240). There's much more to any camera than saying it does x and Y. For me the sauce is in the DR and how it performs to capture the upper and lower end, the colour gamut and the ability to shoot RAW or LOG with little quality difference.

Now whether the Varicam LT makes a splash or not is not on me. That's for Panasonic to worry about and I'll keep shooting whatever the client wants me to, but assuming its within the directive, I'll opt for varicam when I can.
 
I hear you. But I'm tired of the skin tones argument.

The world is moving too fast for people to care. Which professional camera really produces bad skintones? I mean does one camera make a person look like an alien? They are all fine. Some may just produce a look that people are more used to (ARRI) and require less/different grading.

ISO 5000 is cool...the 1DX Mark II is super clean at 8000, 10000. Cameras' sensitivity will only get better and better. (Dual ISO was impressive in 2012.)

How a person's iris reacts doesn't really matter to me; I will always use lighting for everything I can.

Either way, I love all cameras and I'm sure I would learn to love this one too because I really was interested in at one point, but I just don't think it's worth the money IMO.
 
NorBro said:
I hear you. But I'm tired of the skin tones argument.

The world is moving too fast for people to care. Which professional camera really produces bad skintones? I mean does one camera make a person look like an alien? They are all fine. Some may just produce a look that people are more used to (ARRI) and require less/different grading.

ISO 5000 is cool...the 1DX Mark II is super clean at 8000, 10000. Cameras' sensitivity will only get better and better. (Dual ISO was impressive in 2012.)

How a person's iris reacts doesn't really matter to me; I will always use lighting for everything I can.

Either way, I love all cameras and I'm sure I would learn to love this one too because I really was interested in at one point, but I just don't think it's worth the money IMO.
Click to expand...

You can be tired of the skin tone argument all you like, but it's still a very valid consideration for me.

Dual ISO was impressive in 2012? The Varicams where the first and are the only cameras on the market that have dual native ISO, so Im not sure I follow your point at all. Its the only camera on the market that can boast +1db noise from 800 to 5000.

Sheesh, I never said no light. Don McAlpine lights everything as do I. The point was you can use less wattage lamps to achieve this outcome, not less lamps.

And if this camera isnt worth the money to you, probably move on?
 
The C300 MKII looks like a nice camera. I do love Canon color, and the price beats the LT...but no 60p in 4k is a big deal to me. Plus it looks like it requires a bit more effort and money to get it to a comfortable shoulder mount configuration, which I need pretty often.
 
What the Canon offers is focus focus focus. Canon IMO has played this well. The focus features built in the C300MKII using Canon lenses is something only they can do and they've taken full advantage of that. I can certainly see why that would appeal to many. Not just the auto tracking focus either. The (sorry can't remember name since I last used the C300MKII), focus where its manual and uses partial auto to ensure sharps (yeah that one), is a great feature as well and worked really well for me.

However, and this is as it relates to me, on the LT I can switch out to PL mount in a few minutes with no shimming. The LT can use EF, PL and B4 (utilising the LT's crop mode with adapter). Switching from a doc or one man band corp gig with Canon glass to a set of Cookes for a TVC is important to me.
 
I agree with Noel. The image of the Varicam is beautiful. I've said I would make some footage available but I've had too much to do. I'll do my best to shoot something soon and put it online.

I'm not an expert in technical matters but the thing with the base ISO is also affecting DR, isn't it? If I'm right about that then the Varicam LT should have a higher DR in 5000 ISO than an 1DX II, and probably has a much better codec (I don't know much about the 1DX II).
I'm happy I bought the Varicam LT, partly so because I bought a demo unit and got it for a better price, but also because it's a nice camera. As Noel said the C300 mk II has an autofocus which probably works very well. I haven't used it myself but I've used a C300, and I believe they are much better suited for handheld work (not shoulder mount) than the Varicam LT. The absence of an audio volume control is partly solved with the recent firmware update as Noel mentioned, but since you can also assign one input to several channels you can have back-up audio in a higher or lower level. The mono inputs are 3 and 4, so you could set it to record input 3 on channel 1 and 3, and input 4 to channel 2 and 4.
If I needed a good camera but wanted someting small and light for handheld, I wouldn't buy the Varicam LT. If I wanted something that can produce a beautiful image and could manage if it's a bit heavier, then I would. Also, it's a good motivator for working out. ;)

Being tired of different arguments sounds a bit harsh NorBro, since no one is forcing anyone to buy it. If it's nothing for you: don't buy it. :)
I'm pretty sure that Noel is happy with the image (skin tones), since it's really good. Compared to my FS700 the sensor is much better, of what I've experienced so far, but for some jobs I still use the FS700 since it's lighter. Eventually I'll change it to an FS5/C100 mk II or something similar, if a new camera is launched (maybe the a6500 or the GH5 will be an option?).
Regarding the control panel being in the back of the camera: it can be moved. Yes, maybe it's not the best design in the world, but it can come in handy that you can actually move it around. You can also take it away completely and control the camera with the side buttons. It isn't as fast, but you can if you have to reduce the weight.

All in all I think the camera is great so far, but it's definitely more expensive than both the FS7 and the C300 mk II. Remember that the AU-VGRP1 is an additional cost and I believe the P2 cards and reader are more expensive than the ones the FS7 and C300 mk II use. Also, there's no viewfinder included in the price. FS7 is probably much more value for the money you spend, and also the C300 mk II, but the question is: can you get something better than the Varicam LT for the same price? My opinion is: probably not.
In the end it's also a matter of preference, if you're happy with the Sony/Canon image then you should get one of those. Maybe an F5 is the way to go for you?

I don't know if it's still for sale but you might want to check this out:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?349741-Selling-my-LT
I don't know what the US prices are, but I guess that his kit is more affordable than a new one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top