Using Sag Talent

Thanks everyone,

Thanks everyone,

Thanks Stuntworks for that great explanation as well especially. Does anyone know if an actor files under financial core, will my film still be a "Sag production"? Even though I will sign no contracts with that actor nor pay him the $100 lowest rate?
 
Clint, I'd recommend that you attend a SAGIndie workshop. The next one in L.A. is August 14th. Check out the link. You don't commit to anything by going and the demystify that whole thing as well as answering a boatload of questions you may have. It's really worthwhile attending (doesn't cost you anything except one evening of your time). Follow the link I posted and sign up. Afterward, if you don't want to used SAG, don't. But at least you'll understand the process and realize it really isn't that big a deal on a "no budget" movie. The nice thing about the Ultra-Low Budget Agreement is that there are no "step up" fees involved. In other words, if you don't get a theatrical release and go straight to video, it doesn't change how much you have to pay your actors.

There are lots of other pitfalls on low/no budget movies. According to the IRS, everyone working on your film is an employee and must receive at least minimum wage with withholding taxes. And California requires you purchase Workers' Comp Insurance. Most low/no budget indie folks ignore these things but they are still required by law...just an fyi.
 
Wow Blaine, I had no idea about that... but what about "volunteers"? Also, does that include short films?
 
With all do respect, I don't believe you understand the complexity, intensity, stress, cost, and effort that actually goes into making a feature film. Let alone a feature film that gets distribution.

I can almost Promise you that you will not get a distribution deal by being your own camera person, director, producer, audio guy, gaffer, costume director, props, make-up, editor, etc... and all this with no experience.

am i saying don't do it? hell no. What I am saying is that, don't expect to make ANY money off your first film. Infact, expect to loose money. You feed your actors daily, pay for props, and hope your actors work for free. don't worry about sag etc just get your film shot so you can LEARN off your mistakes and continue on.

Also, read the first thread called Corrado. That person did what you're trying to do with 350,000. He has distribution and spent around 220,000 on everything BUT the actors. about 130,000 on actors i believe. He has made a few short films, a feature documentry, and then went on to do a feature film. Do the same. Start with a few short films before you jump into a feature. You'll see how hard it is just to make a 10 minute piece. and thus give you an idea how hard a feature will be.
 
I have to agree with Egypt, I know you're not going to take his advice about starting slow with shorts, no one gives up the big dream cause others say so.

so that being the case, please for the love of God, take my advice, bring in at least three other crew members. at the very least hire a producer, a DP, and an AD, now this is the least, and I mean least. you should also get a gaffer some grips, you can have your producer double as location scout, and your ad as prop master. your DP can work as a gaffer and grip, as well as camera. keep in mind you have to pay these people. then have your friends and family make up the rest of the crew, but for Christ sake, have some ringers. I mean thats what you want the A or B list actor for. crew is the same, no one goes to hear a one man band.
 
Clint's like a mule. No one can steer him. In a way he reminds me of me, which is not all that bad.

I had a producer who had produced over 100 films (major ones with A listers) tell me to get out of the business when I showed him my first script. When I argued with him about it he said...

"Whatever. You're going to do what you're going to do and not listen to me"

He was right, but I needed to go experience failure many times first hand, and I think Clint will need to as well.
 
LOL, my problem is my first film went so smothly, so perfectly that I actually thought film making would be nothing but easy fun, just give your actors a script, get a few location, show up to set with my camera and a few lights and in a few days you're done. then I started learning sometimes I wish I hadn't learned anything and it was just me a camera some work lights and friends.


I think maybe the worst thing Clint could have done was come to this site to ask questions,

Clint ignore all my and everyone elses advice, just go for it man. shoot it even if you dont get someone famous, hell I almost had Toby Mcguire's brother in a film before Toby was really big, but was up and coming lol.
 
I had an effing terrible experience with SAG. I wanted two experienced actors for a foreign production, and asked on a popular producer's mailing list about experiences with SAG for overseas shoots.

I was immediately attacked by a couple SAG reps, accusing me of "stealing jobs from Americans" by shooting overseas. It's a foreign film. Foreign. Film. It's not even in English except for these two actors lines. They threatened blacklisting me and the production, and tried (unsuccesfully, fortunately) to get the rest of the mailing list behind them.

Instead I'm using Canadian actors, who are represented by a much more reasonable union.
 
If you actually shoot, i'm curious to know how it goes. Post a blog in the user films section.

My first short film was hell. Mayb eit was because i decided to go over the top with a crew of 2 (myself directing and another shooting). I spent around $500, (300 of which i got back in returns ;) ), built a boxing ring, found locations, found actors, begged for help from friends, and it turned out shitty. I had a million problems. the biggest, audio. Now i'm an audio freak haha. Thats what you learn from a shitty shoot/making a shitty movie.
 
Don't listen to the people who are "almost guaranteeing" you that you wont get theatrical distribution. Don't listen to any of them. Go read some of their other posts and you'll see that they know zero about theatrical distribution. If your movie is great then you've got nothing to worry about. Keep pushing forward.

About the "SAG"... If the actor is really good and he'll make your movie better then do everything you can to get him in it. You can sign a deal with SAG that will essentially defer any daily wage and you can stilll use non-unioin actors. You'll still be cool with SAG.

If you do end up getting theatrical dist. or a DVD distribution deal then you will only owe the actor his deferred wages if you turned a substantial profit. There's probably some residuals you'll owe in the future but nothing crazy. And maybe you do make a ton of money on your movie... paying the actor his peanuts wont be a big deal.

It's far better to get a talented actor to make your project better. Go for it man.
 
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aurantaurant said:
You can sign a deal with SAG that will essentially defer any daily wage and you can stilll use non-unioin actors. You'll still be cool with SAG.
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This is incorrect. The only contract that allows for deferred salary is the "Short Film Agreement." All the other agreements require payment for SAG actors...the amount varies with the contract used. The best one in this case would be the "Ultra Low Budget Agreement" which calls for a minimum of $100/day for SAG actors. You'll also have to make Pension and Health contributions for your SAG actors. The good thing about this particular contract is that there is no step up fee to higher low budget agreement rates if you end up going direct to video. Too qualify for this contract, your budget has to be less than $200,000 and filmed entirely in the United States. It also allows for union and non-union actors.
 
...could essentially defer any daily wage...

If the dude is in on it from the beginning... he gets his cash at the end of the week, signs for it... says, "Oh hey I'm going over to the Rhino for some after hours mingling" Never goes to the Rhino, goes home. And the money ends up back in your pocket sometime before the end of the next day, where you repeat the action again.

I've never done that, but i know someone who has. He's still working.

Or you just shoot 6 short films that all happen to connect together to make one happy feature.

Blaine, did you know Blaine, MO is the stool capital of the world? Stool Boom... from the parlor to the pool room... everyone knows it's name!!
 
For the OP -

Just went to SAGIndie's latest Contract Workshop, and here's the deal if you want SAG talent by the book.

First off, you never pay SAG any money, short of a bond, which you receive back in full.

SAG must be contacted in the pre-production phase. SAG won't sign a signatory contract for any project in production.

You may have to pay residuals on any theatrical distribution, (but it ain't that bad).

You can use union and non-union talent on the Ultra Low Budget contract.

Any of these low budget contracts require you only shoot in the USA, which I assume is solidarity with IATSE or something. (Although purchasing stock footage of foreign locations is cool...weird...)

For the Ultra Low Budget contract (under $200,000), first you'd contact SAG to become a signatory, at which point they will ask you for a copy of (among other things) your script and a detailed budget. Under this contract, you must pay any SAG talent a minimum of $100 USD + 14.8% for health and pension, as well as make contributions to any state & federal taxes. This check must arrive to SAG by no later than the friday following the work week, and they then pass it on to the actor. If you are on location, you must pay the actor by that Friday AND have a copy to SAG. There is no deferment.

If you're on location, you also owe them a per diem for any meal you don't provide. $8 breakfast, $12 lunch, $30 dinner.

Now, to make sure production doesn't just scam the actors, SAG requires either a bond or proof of escrow of a certain dollar amount, as figured by some crazy calculation that I didn't quite get. I do recall that if your shoot is under 2 weeks, they require a bond for 100% of your actors fees. If it's over three weeks, I believe it's around 40%. (Anyone who knows this better than I, PLEASE CORRECT!!!)

The bond gets returned from you 4 to 6 weeks after the film is in the can. SAG makes no money on the bond, it is held in an interest bearing account, which you also collect.

Sure, you could probably get around all of this, however, I would not like to draw the ire of SAG. For as much as a pain in the ass as it is, they are there to protect their actors. Considering that 99.9% of the actors cast in Ultra Low Budget are the 'middle-class actors', they can't afford to get dicked by an unscrupulous producer, or worse yet, by something as benign as an amateur who is afraid of paperwork....

I also sympathize as I'm in the editor's guild, and I have definitely seen some shadiness on the part of producers with VERY big names. There's a lot of money to be made in this town, and unfortunately, a lot of it comes from being a scumbag.
 
aurantaurant said:
...could essentially defer any daily wage...

If the dude is in on it from the beginning... he gets his cash at the end of the week, signs for it... says, "Oh hey I'm going over to the Rhino for some after hours mingling" Never goes to the Rhino, goes home. And the money ends up back in your pocket sometime before the end of the next day, where you repeat the action again.
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Sure, nothing's stopping someone from giving you money back. But you still have to pay the person by sending SAG a paycheck in that person's name, so the money still has to go somewhere. It's not "virtual" money, it's real. That's in addition to the security bond that you have to pay SAG up front.

Or you just shoot 6 short films that all happen to connect together to make one happy feature.
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You would have to draft up a new contract for your pieced together shorts. At that point, you would have to pay your actors.
 
aurantaurant said:
...could essentially defer any daily wage...

If the dude is in on it from the beginning... he gets his cash at the end of the week, signs for it... says, "Oh hey I'm going over to the Rhino for some after hours mingling" Never goes to the Rhino, goes home. And the money ends up back in your pocket sometime before the end of the next day, where you repeat the action again.
Click to expand...

Tom Marshall said:
Sure, nothing's stopping someone from giving you money back. But you still have to pay the person by sending SAG a paycheck in that person's name, so the money still has to go somewhere. It's not "virtual" money, it's real. That's in addition to the security bond that you have to pay SAG up front.
Click to expand...

You also would lose the money going to pension & health, as well as state and federal taxes.

aurantaurant said:
Or you just shoot 6 short films that all happen to connect together to make one happy feature.
Click to expand...

Tom Marshall said:
You would have to draft up a new contract for your pieced together shorts. At that point, you would have to pay your actors.
Click to expand...

What Tom says is probably right if you contact SAG first about doing this and try to work it out amicably.

But if you go the 6 short films = 1 feature route...

If you sign a contract for the short film agreement, the moment you get any kind of distribution, you owe the actors money, i.e. their deferred pay of at least $100/day plus pension & health and whatever state and federal taxes, SSI, and DI are.

Say this distribution deal is for your 6 short films strung together. You'll have to submit a copy of your distribution deal, then bang, they'll figure out real quick what's what. First thing is you'd no longer be a short film, so your contract would get bumped up. You're at their mercy as to what contract you'd fall under (imagine having to pay you actors $500 a day). Then there's another big issue: you've signed 6 short film contracts for 6 different productions. Having 6 short film contracts bumped up to 6 basic contracts could really suck.

Then again, at the preproduction phase, when you turn in your script, if they even sniff that what you're doing is the 6 short films = one feature, they have the right to deny you the contract.

Check out their contracts:

http://www.sagindie.org/resources/contracts/
 
The reason why I addressed the combining shorts is because I went to the SAGIndie workshop 2 days ago and that question was specifically brought up. The SAG business rep clearly stated that that's what the person would have to do - draft up a new contract for a new project.
 
Tom - I hear ya. The point I was trying to get across was that it seemed like SAG is willing to work with you if you approach them in a professional manner, as opposed to trying to sneak one by them....
 
Absolutely. They have very little tolerance for sneakiness. I can only imagine what those SAG reps have to deal with...
 
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