Using Sag Talent

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Well-known member
Okay, I touched on this topic before, you guys could search for it, but in the end I decided to not have any sag actors in my film. But I don't know, I still am not really convinced, this sag actor really wants to be in my film, even though its meal/copy/credit, he is really passionate for it, which is why my same question pops up, I really want to use him, but should I? And if I do use him, what has to be done for everything to be legit, legal, no one sues anyone, no one pays anyone, etc.

This is for an indie project, a feature film, I'm directing it, shooting it, casting it, etc, I am using all non sag actors.

I keep saying no because, well, say this film gets theatrical distribution (+2000 theaters), that is what I am shooting for, I don't want to pay a dime to SAG for him coming out, or get him kicked out of SAG for coming out in the film,

he keeps telling me it is no problem, should I just use him, and if the film is distributed, and SAG hits me up for fees, the distributors will pay it, or how would that work?

Sorry for being somewhat ignorant of the facts, I never directed a feature film, nor used SAG talent, nor know the process using SAG talent will turn out from this point, getting contracts, all the way to the end in distribution.

I just want to use the sag guy without being sued somehow and or having to owe big money to someone. They easy thing for me to do was just not use SAG talent, but I realize now that for the B actors I wish to use, it requires more research, I am now making time to do so, thanks!
 
If he is that adamant, he can always file "financial core" and work on your film outside the union. The difference there is that all the heat will be taken onto him and not you. Now... there may or may not be any "heat". SAG frowns upon it and has taken steps in the past which include fines against the actor, and sometimes revoking membership. But that is only what they CAN do, I dont know of a single instance of it happening. Also, there are TONS of actors in this town (LA) who are on financial core simply because they are not getting UNION work, but they NEED and WANT the work... but the union keeps them from doing so.

It's not that big of a deal, and the pressure is off of you. HOWEVER...if you CONTINUALLY do it, then SAG will eventually frown upon you and YOU will then incur the wrath of the union thugs. (And I'm SAG, AFTRA, AEA, but hate unions.)

BUT... as positive as you want to be about your success and your 2000+ screens... keep in mind that American Beauty never played on 2000 screens and neither did Fight Club. Those films had one or two recognizable SAG names in them. It's okay to dream, just remember where the real world is so you dont get lost.


(for more info on SAG financial core, Google is just a click away.)
 
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You seem really uneducated about SAG. You can use him all day - it's his problem if he violates HIS union agreement. There is nothing SAG can do to you - you are not a SAG signatory.

You won't be sued or asked to pay big money.

Now let me go the other direction and give you a reality check - Your film will not get theatrical release. At best, you will be looking at a DVD deal. At very best.

Having said all of that, why wouldn't you make the film under a SAG contract? It's easy, painless, and at the budget level I think you'll be at, you'll only have to pay them 100 per day, period, end of story. And, you'll have access to a bunch of legitimate, experienced actors that may wind up helping you sell your film.

Make sure you've thought this through before you proceed further.
 
Taormina said:
Having said all of that, why wouldn't you make the film under a SAG contract? It's easy, painless, and at the budget level I think you'll be at, you'll only have to pay them 100 per day, period, end of story. And, you'll have access to a bunch of legitimate, experienced actors that may wind up helping you sell your film.
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Original Poster said:
...even though its meal/copy/credit...
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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that $100 a day per actor is going to end up being outside the meal/copy/credit budget.
 
Final question

Final question

Okay, so here is the direct question. Is there a yes or no.

Say I use this SAG actor, and according to the advice from above, I will aceept this other SAG girl who also wants to be in the film. And I will look for 2 other SAG actors which I denied but now say its okay.

So here it is, I say, welcome to the cast. We film. No SAG contracts, just my own I use for all actors on my film. We edit. We go to festivals. Come out in 2000+ theatres, SAG seees, many people see.

Am I safe? If anything its all on them correct?
 
The SAG actors will face sever disciplinary action in that scenario for violating Rule One. It will be their problem, not yours.
 
I'm going for it. But I don't see how SAG would like their reputation to be like that, that they control their actors like overly jealous abusive boyfriends, if they come out in someone else's movie they get smacked up quite good, that not very nice of SAG. An actor is an artist, and they should have the freedom to work in SAG projects, and work in whatever else they feel like whether it is union or not, it sounds quite sad really for SAG to restrict actors that way. But hey, they do have a leash on good talent, so yeah Im using SAG actors, thanks for they chat everyone. I guess I should not worry anymore at all, after all you guys are SAG members and know a hell of a lot more than me on the subject.
 
I'm not a SAG member, my company is a signatory. The Actors sign a contract and make a pledge to not violate SAG's bylaws. They know this going into the deal, so when an actor chooses to violate their union's rules, they get in trouble.

A deal is a deal and a contract is a contract. If your actors want to be douche bags and work in your movie, then that's their problem. I'm as anti union as anyone, but they should get their asses kicked. They are going back on their word and reneging on a contract they have. What does that tell you about them?

You also may be jeopardizing your chances of working with SAG in the future and may or may not care about that.
 
If your actors want to be douche bags and work in your movie, then that's their problem. I'm as anti union as anyone, but they should get their asses kicked.
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But he's not one to overreact.
 
Acording to Dov ss Simmens, Sag actors are allowed to do non sag productions. Thats their own deal. If the actor is ok with it they can do it. Its like saying because you belong to the screen actors guild, you cant work any other job but sag films. Thats just not how that works, according to Dov. Buy the book on amazon, I got mine for 7 bucks.

Reel to deal.

my 2 cents
 
Dov, as usual, has his head completely and firmly lodged in his ass.

Here is the rule:

“No member shall work as a performer or make an agreement to work as a performer for any producer who has not executed a basic minimum agreement with the Guild which is in full force and effect.” - from the SAG Constitution


In plain language, that means that a SAG member must always work under a union contract, and must NEVER work non-union.

Do I think this is ridiculous? Sure. But I didn't agree to this in good faith either. Why sign a contract if you don't intend to live up to it?
 
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Zerg, you have read Dov incorrectly. I will not type out the entire passage, but Dov said exactly what Adam said above. You CAN hire them, but that the actors would be breaking their contract. And Dov also points out "that is their problem, not yours."
 
by the way Gage your avatar - my fav flick of all time .

End Hijack, back to regularly scheduled programming.
 
Reading over the thread again, I just wanted to add:

Its like saying because you belong to the screen actors guild, you cant work any other job but sag films.
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This is exactly how it works. You can still work your bar tending job, you just cant work non-union film jobs. This is where "financial core" comes in. You can file for "financial core membership" which then reduces you to paying dues but not being a "full" member, and then you are not bound by the rules of the union. You can work both union and non-union jobs. The problem is that the unions are VERY controlling and this is, in an essence, telling them to F off. The union's desire is to make ALL work union. When you tell them that you want to do non-union work, they dont often take it well. There have been threats of revoking membership if you do take non-union work. Then with membership revoked, you now cant work UNION jobs.

Threats, intimidation, thuggery.
 
Alright I seem to have been mistaken.

What about the big guys? I know for many Tarantino films, they were non union and used union actors. Example, from dusk till dawn, which I suppose is a Rodriguez flick, they didn't go through the union, actually it was a big deal, but they still did it? I am pretty sure Bruce Willis worked for free in Four Rooms as well as Planet Terror. He went uncredited in both.

Please correct me if im wrong.
 
I will do a little googling, but off the top of my head, I remember that RR told the DGA to F off, but the films were still SAG.

....research....will return...


Wired, Apr. 05: While making From Dusk Till Dawn, he insisted on using a nonunion crew.

GreenCine Daily, Nov 03: Dusk director Robert Rodriguez and Tarantino opted to head south with a non-union crew. But when the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) caught wind of this decision, they tried to shut the film down.

There is actually more to that GreenCine article and it's pretty interesting.

But again, it only addresses the IATSE and not SAG. I imagine SAG would have put up a similar stink trying to get the film shut down. but I'm not 100% on this, and that's about all the research I can do on the matter. I'm also not familiar with SAG's Experimental Film Agreement.

Suffice to say, Adam and I aren't steering you wrong. Like he said, he is a signatory - seep in production on a SAG film, so he is going through it on the production side, and I pour through my own SAG info, from an actor's side, in order to keep my productions non-union. And it often goes deeper than just not wanting to pay the Indie SAG rates.
 
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Thought I'd jump into the thread with a few thoughts. I am a regularly working SAG member and I am also a director/producer that has dealt with this situation.

First of the info about Financial Core has pretty much been covered. However, unless you're a bigger member, you really won't get that much cr@p. Jon Voight is Ficore and he took A LOT of cr@p. But I know a number of ficore people that have never been bothered. If they want to "rejoin" SAG they'll have issues, but even that is doable. The stigma comes more from the members themselves in many cases, but it's usually not a big deal for a day to day SAG member. SAG will whine about it because that's how they are, BUT they CANNOT revoke your membership as it is illegal. Ficore is protected by federal labor laws and all they can do is try and convince/intimidate you, which has happened. After all, you are still paying just as much as you were the day before. I myself am not ficore, it wasn't a plus for me.

I agree with Adam, if you sign the contract, say you're a member, you abide by that contract and you don't take non union work. Does it happen? Sure...if you've got to feed your family someone is likely to take a job to pay the rent. But you also risk expulsion or censure. SAG members KNOW that going in and it's their call. But there are a lot of reasons to not work a non union job. Pay, or lack therof, conditions, lack of insurance, nothing down the road, hours, etc. Not all non unions are like that, but MANY are. Let me play the other side of the argument for a sec.

Clint...you wrote:
I keep saying no because, well, say this film gets theatrical distribution (+2000 theaters), that is what I am shooting for, I don't want to pay a dime to SAG for him coming out, or get him kicked out of SAG for coming out in the film,
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First off SAG would get nothing, no matter what you make. Residuals are paid to actors THRU SAG, but SAG does not get a percentage. They make their money to operate off of member dues. But your statement begs the question, if this actor is in your film...his perfomance helps make your film a success...you like the actor...is there any reason you would begrudge paying him residuals down the road for his assistance in making your film a success?

Most actors work sporadically. They may only work a few days on a film, unlike crew that generally works the entire film. If you're doing this for a living it's rough and it gets rougher if you have to work for really low/no rates, get no overtime but are worked into the ground, get fed crap, etc. Clint, please do not read into this that I think you'll be like this on your show. Quite the contrary, most of the folks on this board seem to be really squared away. My point is that this does happen all the time and in fact, it's really the norm on non unions.

But as for you...you won't get sued, SAG will probably never get wind of it (unless they're trolling this board lol), and while it is possible that it will affect you with SAG in the future...it is highly unlikely. I have producers that have owed me money for years, SAG knows and is still negotiating, meanwhile the producers are allowed to do other movies even though they owe multiple SAG members. So I wouldn't worry about that. But if you like these actors and respect their work...then putting them in this position isn't great.

SAG may be a pain in some ways, but there are multiple contracts to allow a low budge to be made using SAG. There are also defferred payment contracts. The big one that comes to mind is the SAG "Ultra Low Budget" contract. As Adam said, this is 100.00 a day for Union people AND it also ALLOWS the use of non union people. You can use as many or as few of either as you want. SAG will only be concerned with how you pay the union people. But now you have access to a much broader talent pool, which is invaluable down the line if you actually want to sell this. Also it allows you to say it's a SAG production, which gives the production a bit more credibility in some circles. Believe me, if a buyer/distributor finds out it was a non union production, they are first going to wonder what level of talent is in it, they will KNOW there are no names in it which equals VERY diminished selling capability, and they immediately figure they can offer you much less and that you'll take it.

If money is REALLY tight, but you have some SAG actors that REALLY want to work the show, I'm sure you could work something out with them. But honestly, if your money is THAT tight that you can't pay a couple of actors 100.00 a day for X number of days, what are the chances the film will have what it takes to get a decent DVD sale, much less a theatrical release? Getting some solid working actors will pay you dividends in the long run. Not to mention, now maybe you can go for some sort of "name" actor, try and get them in for just a day so as not to break the budget, then put them in the flick and on the box cover.

I directed my first feature and we went back and forth about this. We decided to go with the Ultra Low Budget contract to protect the multitude of friends we had working on the film and maybe get some talent. As a consequence we lucked out and got Luke Goss (Blade 2, currently the lead bad guy in Hellboy 2) as our lead actor because he liked the script. Adam had a similar experience on his film. So now we have a much greater chance of selling and they are calling us instead of the other way around. If you're creative you can do it. We're just finishing up and when it's all said and done we will have spent about 275,000.00, we have name talent, we shot ON FILM, and we have stunts and action out the wazoo. It can be done, so go for it my friend.

Oh...btw, all of Tarantino & Rodriquez's films are SAG, excluding the very earliest.
 
Isn't there some sort of contract sag actors can sign which will allow them to do both union and non-union work?

One of my actors was talking about doing that.
 
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