Using Nikon Lenses on Canon bodies

M

meauounji

Well-known member
So here's the story. I have a nice set of Nikon AIs lenses I'm trying to use on my 7D. I've tried 3 different makers of these Nikon/EF adapters now, and NONE of them were able to focus infinity AT the infinity mark. They can all focus to infinity, but they all push infinity a couple of millimeters back on the focus barrel. I've tried the cheap $17 Fotodiox, $79 Haoda Fu, and a no-name.

Searching around on the web hasn't yielded a conclusive result for what adapter will put infinity in its proper place, and DVXuser search seems to be broken for me right now.

So here I am.

Can anyone tell me conclusively with personal experience of an adapter that you have used that allowed you to focus to infinity AT the infinity mark? Thanks for your help ahead of time.
 
oops. Forgot to mention that the lenses I'm using are:

Nikkor 24mm f2.0
Nikkor 35mm f1.4
Nikkor 50mm f1.2
Nikkor 85mm f1.4

All AIs version
 
I am using cheap Kawa Nikon F mount to EOS mount adaptors, and they do not allow for infinity focus AT the infinity focus mark on my T2i. I have shot a lot of pics testing it, and it does appear that the infinity focus, with the few mm adjustment forward, is a true infinity focus (or close enough anyway) that I have gotten over it. Since the adaptor does change the back focus by a few millimeters, I am not sure that any adaptor, without the very expensive ability to adjust the back focus, would fit the bill.

I have tested this on:

Nikkor 24mm f2.8 pre-AI
Nikkor 35mm F2.8 pre-AI
Nikkor 100mm E series
Nikkor-Q 200mm f4 pre-AI

I am still going to buy Nikkor lenses, and use the cheap Kawa adaptors. I am still looking to pick up, at least, a Nikkor 20mm f2.8, pre-AI, and a Nikkor 85mm f1.8 pre-AI. I really dig the lenses I have and as noted above, have gotten over the infinity focus at the infinity focus mark issue. It is just one of those little extra compromises to deal with using the video DSLR, and the lens choices I have made.
 
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David,

Funny how you're going for mostly all pre-ai and I'm going all AI-s. To each his own, I guess.

Well, did some more reading and it seems even the very expensive Novoflex adapter suffers from the same issue. I also corresponded briefly with Haoda Fu (the guy) who claims that if an adapter can get you infinity on infinity, then it would probably work only for that one lens.

It really doesn't seem that complicated to me though. If I just hold a lens in front of the camera about ~1.5mm in front of the mount, infinity on infinity is possible. It seems like it's a just matter of getting the right thickness. I mean, Nikon lenses consistently expect that their image is going to be projected a certain distance out. This distance is a few millimeters longer than Canon's which is why there's room in the first place. I wouldn't have imagined that it won't work if you can nail this exact distance with an adapter. But hey, what do I know...
 
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meauounji said:
David,

Funny how you're going for mostly all pre-ai and I'm going all AI-s. To each his own, I guess.

Well, did some more reading and it seems even the very expensive Novoflex adapter suffers from the same issue. I also corresponded briefly with Haoda Fu (the guy) who claims that if an adapter can get you infinity on infinity, then it would probably work only for that one lens.

It really doesn't seem that complicated to me though. If I just hold a lens in front of the camera about 1mm in front of the mount, infinity on infinity is possible. It seems like it's a just matter of getting the right thickness. I mean, Nikon lenses consistently expect that their image is going to be projected a certain distance out. This distance is a few millimeters longer than Canon's which is why there's room in the first place. I wouldn't have imagined that it won't work if you can nail this exact distance with an adapter. But hey, what do I know...
Click to expand...

I don't understand why, if you could get it right, it would only work for one lens.... I am not a real big number cruncher, actually, when it comes to the purely technical standards of filmmaking. I like evaluating the final image, and how it works for me. I purchased the Nikkor 24mm f2.8 pre-AI lens and fell in love with it. That is why I prefer the pre-AI lenses. I like the lowered contrast and the way they throw a little bit of desaturation to the image. They are not bleeding edge razor sharp, which, again, I prefer. They also make lens flares that appear more as "Blooms of lights" instead of prismatic rainbows, and I like that also. They are very well made, plentiful, and thus relatively inexpensive. I still like to think of the magic of the whole image making process and the pre-AI Nikkors have a "Mojo" that I dig and am going to keep them around, and pick up the other two I want, a Nikkor 20mm f2.8, pre-AI, and a Nikkor 85mm f1.8 pre-AI. On second thought, I also try to pick up a fast 50mm in the pre-AI line to complete the series. These lenses fit nicely in my tool box for a very specific fictional narrative aesthetic that I am exploring. I like the 100mm E series lens also, and think that maybe the E series lenses might be very underrated. That 100mm is a little bit higher contrast, and gives a little bit more saturation, but it will still cut, shot for shot with my other Nikkor lenses.
 
First of all the important issue is that the adapter allows you hit infinity even if you are going past it. If you can't hit infinity at all you are screwed.

second the comment about it only working for one lens makes no sense to me. Usually Nikon lenses are pretty damn consistent on back focus so a good adapter should work for all.

I have used the Fotodiox "pro" adapter that costs around $80-90 or so (can't remember which) and their $20 adapter and some of the Haoda ones.

While none was exactlly right on, the "Pro" Fotodiox was quite a bit closer. The others all hit the infinty point substantially before the lens marking. My personal decision was that was OK as I was always manually eyeballing focus anyway. With zoom lenses it will throw your tracking off even more than it usually is on still zooms anyway. Unfortunately my Nikon 80-200 2.8 tracks perfectly on my SG Pro adapter which has backfocus set correctly. With the Pro adapter its slightlyu off and I have to check every shot. too bad, but I stopped trusting the fact that every one of these manufacturers claims "perfect backfocus" distance. It seems to just be marketing.

I had a little more trouble with the haoda mechanism on one of my adapters but I'm not sure it was actually any different than the cheaper Fotodiox ones.

The pro fotodiox are made better, will last longer and the metal is harder thus will change less over time. More money though.

David, Are you sure the glass is that different on the pre AIS lenses? I thought it was mainly just the coupling for the meter that was changed on these. The Nikon lenses went through many changes over the years and AIS was only one part of it.

Lenny Levy
 
I have a mix of over a dozen ai and ai-s lenses. I have 4 types of adapters and they are all a bit off the infinity mark. The back-focus on each lens is slightly off too so I just tried each different adapter on each lens to make sure they all at least hit infinity.

There were changes in lens coatings from the pre ai to ai period. ai and ai-s mostly have the same coatings and optics but the ai lenses have longer focus throws.

best nikkor lens history resource-
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/50mmnikkor/index.htm

links to each focal length at the bottom of the page
 
To chime in, yeah the non-ai and ai lenses harken back to an era when men were men, and Nikon/Canon/Minolta didn't care about lightening the weight of the lens, and so there were few if any mechanical or material compromises made. The Nikon non ai and ai, Canon breech lock FD (not FDn or nFD bayonet) and Minolta MC Rokkors all have amazing solid build quality and for that reason alone, I often cherry pick a focal length from the older designs because I know for example, that a particular non ai lens will have a longer focus throw ( Nikon 85mm f1.8 non ai vs 85mm AIS F2 ). Nikon went to AIS, Canon went to FDn and Minolta went on to their MD series. And then everything went to plastic sh*t once autofocus needed even lighter materials to perform well.

I've acquired the lens lines of Nikon/Canon/Minolta/Vivitar, more out of fun than for professional use. But two things I've found 1) almost all still photography lenses breathe pretty badly. 2) adapters will always throw some degree of error into your flange focal distance, throwing off your back focus + chip heat and temperature can mess up your back focus.

So what to do? When it really matters rent or buy camera equipment and/or lenses that have back focus adjustments. The Zeiss Digi Primes (for 2/3" 3CCD use) for example have built in back focus adjustment which you can use with a null lens or focus chart. I don't know if the Red Pro Primes have back focus adjustment, but the RED camera itself has it. Will the Panasonic AF-100? Who knows, but it probably needs it, as everyone is going to use an adapter with it, same as the GH1.

Eventually, I'd like to be in a position when I could justify the purchase of $32K cine primes with back focus adjustment, but until then I'll just rent the right kind of lenses when needed and use these cheap still lenses with adapters for fun/low low budget projects when hitting focus marks and infinity is most likely a miss rather than a hit.
 
The lens issue is one of my main concerns about the AF-100, and one of the reason I am not going to blow a big wad tricking out a DSLR with expensive glass. I think that we are in for some big changes in the next year or so, camera wise, and I fell that my modest investment in older Nikkor lenses will serve me well.
 
dadoboy said:
So what to do? When it really matters rent or buy camera equipment and/or lenses that have back focus adjustments. The Zeiss Digi Primes (for 2/3" 3CCD use) for example have built in back focus adjustment which you can use with a null lens or focus chart. I don't know if the Red Pro Primes have back focus adjustment, but the RED camera itself has it. Will the Panasonic AF-100? Who knows, but it probably needs it, as everyone is going to use an adapter with it, same as the GH1.
Click to expand...

This keeps coming up. Are there such things as an adapter with a back focus adjustment?
 
As an aside, you know what'll fix this for sure? If Nikon finally figure out how to get their camera to do 1080p!
 
As a follow-up to my own question. I saw the Ilya Friedman of Hotrod (people who mod 7D's into PL mount) interview by Vincent Laforet, and as he puts it, stills camera just aren't built that precisely? I understood him as saying that backfocus/flange depth need to be accurate within +-5 microns (to give you some perspective, 1 millimeter = 1000 micron) in order for infinity to function correctly.

So the takeaway, I guess, is that I should just get over it and live with the fact that infinity is just not going on land on infinity.

Boo...
 
meauounji said:
As a follow-up to my own question. I saw the Ilya Friedman of Hotrod (people who mod 7D's into PL mount) interview by Vincent Laforet, and as he puts it, stills camera just aren't built that precisely? I understood him as saying that backfocus/flange depth need to be accurate within +-5 microns (to give you some perspective, 1 millimeter = 1000 micron) in order for infinity to function correctly.

So the takeaway, I guess, is that I should just get over it and live with the fact that infinity is just not going on land on infinity.

Boo...
Click to expand...

Uhhhh... are you sure that they said five MICRONS? That sounds like NASA stuff kind of tolerances.
 
Part of the fun of the old AI & pre-AI Nikon lenses is that they're a kludge but they still produce beautiful movies with the EOS cams. But like any kludge, you've got to accept the eccentricities. One of them is that the focus marks are useless, and infinity focus might be before the end of the focus travel.

The tape trick always works if you're pulling focus by the numbers, once you get to know the lens. If you're focusing by eye, it doesn't matter anyway, but you better have magnifying glasses or a finder.
 
asteele10 said:
Will all Nikon lenses fit on a 7D with an adapter like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/663101-REG/Bower_ABEOSN.html. If no which ones will fit?
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ALL is a real big word. This adaptor is to fit a Nikon F mount lens to Canon EOS mount cameras. The Nikon F mounts have been made since about 1959. There were Nikon cameras and lensed before that of which I believe the rangefinder cameras and lenses were the most popular. Rangefinder lenses can not be used for this adaptor. Nikon also makes all kinds of other lenses, for all kinds of uses. However, if the lens you are interested in is from a 35mm (or digital) SLR made after 1959 then that adaptor should work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-mount
 
David G. Smith said:
Uhhhh... are you sure that they said five MICRONS? That sounds like NASA stuff kind of tolerances.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was very surprised at the number, too. I would've thought maybe 0.1 or 0.2 or so millimeter is about how close you'd have to get. That and I thought that even these DSLR's ARE built that precisely.

You can check the interview out for yourself at blog.vincentlaforet.com or cinema5d.com. It's only about 4 minutes. Maybe I misheard. I haven't gone back and looked at it myself.
 
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