Using lavalier microphone for walking scene for short film

B

bronxjragon

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I am in the pre-production phase for a short film. The look and aesthetic is someone a hybrid of "Like Crazy" and "Before Sunrise." Lots of walking. The film is short, about 5 minutes so there isn't that much dialogue.

I'm going for a fly on the wall kind of shoot, so that means a lot of outdoor shots and "stolen shots." Ideally I can secure locations, but I am on a thin budget and I think it'd be fun to attempt this anyway.

Anyway to my point, I'm filming in NYC so it'll be hard to be low key if I have a sound guy with a boom pole out on fifth avenue. I have two actors and thought maybe it'd be easier just to get two Rode Lavalier Microphones and two Zoom h-1s? I'd check the levels and everything then sound speed, action! Again, this is low budget and I by no means want to disrespect sound guys and say I'm cutting the sound guy out because I'm not (sound is just as important to me as image). The whole issue is just that we want to be low key. Also I'd be using a flycam nano and walking backwards while the talent will be walking forwards which may grab some attention as it is. A boom pole would just totally kill the whole "capturing the natural environment."

Anyway, I hope to hear back from some others who've attempted to use lavalier mics on short narrative films. Thanks!
 
You aren't the first to ask about the lav/H1 idea. I'll say the same thing to you that I've said to countless others: why in the world would you want to leave your audio to chance like that? You have no way to monitor, no way to keep control, no way to know that you got what you needed without a problem. You'll have to listen to each take immediately after you record, just to be sure. That doubles production time.

If you absolutely must one-man-band it, consider wireless systems with a small audio bag (mixer/recorder, or even just a decent recorder) and some good headphones. Or bring a sound person and work wireless.

As for the boom pole "killing the whole 'capturing the natural environment'" thing, this is what acting, shooting, and editing are all about. Together, they create the illusion... but I've yet to see a set, studio or location, that preserves the "natural environment" for production.
 
Alex H. said:
You aren't the first to ask about the lav/H1 idea. I'll say the same thing to you that I've said to countless others: why in the world would you want to leave your audio to chance like that? You have no way to monitor, no way to keep control, no way to know that you got what you needed without a problem. You'll have to listen to each take immediately after you record, just to be sure. That doubles production time.

If you absolutely must one-man-band it, consider wireless systems with a small audio bag (mixer/recorder, or even just a decent recorder) and some good headphones. Or bring a sound person and work wireless.

As for the boom pole "killing the whole 'capturing the natural environment'" thing, this is what acting, shooting, and editing are all about. Together, they create the illusion... but I've yet to see a set, studio or location, that preserves the "natural environment" for production.
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I won't be one-man-banding it, there will be a sound guy. I can go for a boom pole, but like I said in a tight area like Union Square with lots of people shopping it'll cause some discomfort. Of course I know with proper framing of shots and what not I can (hopefully!) create the illusion that everything is seamless.

My question is simply this - two lav mics, two H1's with someone monitoring it (yes, a headphone cord will be dangling off of the actors to the sound man) - have people done this and has it worked out for you? I know everything you mentioned above. Of course I know that works. Which is why I'm asking about this other option and if it would work without too much trade off.
 
bronxjragon said:
My question is simply this - two lav mics, two H1's with someone monitoring it (yes, a headphone cord will be dangling off of the actors to the sound man) - have people done this and has it worked out for you?
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The setup you have proposed doesn't make sense. Why would you want your actors in that kind of awkward contraption? How are you going to have constant monitoring of two recorders on two actors if the headphone leads are dangling off the actors? That's even more stressful work for the sound person. The setup you have proposed doesn't make sense.

If you're going with lavs, two wireless receivers and a small recorder can easily, and discretely, sit together in a small hip pack and allow your sound person complete monitoring and control.
 
If you're willing to let a cable dangle from the actors then you're better off using the Rode's XLR adapter and using XLR mic cables as the link to a sound guys mixer where he can monitor both lavs appropriately and can control levels into a recorder.
A XLR mic cable is a lot more rugged than a headphone extension and tolerate being stepped on much better.
Not to mention a replacement can be gotten very easily at any music store or B&H since you'll be in town.

Good luck
 
Alex H. said:
The setup you have proposed doesn't make sense. Why would you want your actors in that kind of awkward contraption? How are you going to have constant monitoring of two recorders on two actors if the headphone leads are dangling off the actors? That's even more stressful work for the sound person. The setup you have proposed doesn't make sense.

If you're going with lavs, two wireless receivers and a small recorder can easily, and discretely, sit together in a small hip pack and allow your sound person complete monitoring and control.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, its an awkward contraption which is why I'm open to different solutions.

The wireless receivers sound like a good idea, my only issue is what about interference? Which is why I figure it'd be better to go corded. But if the wireless solution works I'm all for it!
 
Anyway here's an idea of the location I'd be shooting. Its Union Square in NYC. The aerial shot shows what kind of market it is and the other picture shows how busy it can get.
I think I need to clarify that the rest of the shoot at other locations we'll be going more traditional with a sound guy with a boom pole. Its just for THIS specific scene I don't think that would work. Just too crowded. And my shoestring budget ($200-350 for sound) doesn't allow me to recreate this scene indoors! I'm not intending to shoot wide open, I do want to capture what is going on around.



Union Square at Night.jpgUnion Square Milling.jpg
 
recordingwhiz said:
If you're willing to let a cable dangle from the actors then you're better off using the Rode's XLR adapter and using XLR mic cables as the link to a sound guys mixer where he can monitor both lavs appropriately and can control levels into a recorder.
A XLR mic cable is a lot more rugged than a headphone extension and tolerate being stepped on much better.
Not to mention a replacement can be gotten very easily at any music store or B&H since you'll be in town.

Good luck
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This does sound like a better solution than my initial thought. Thanks!
 
I've done a fair amount of non attention grabbing sound work in NYC.

A boom would probably not distract the people all that much but if your shooting under the wire you may attract the attention of higher authorities.

But having wires dangling of of two moving actors is likely to get more attention. That might look "suspicious" and in post 9-11 america that can get you a lot of attention of a kind you don't want. So in someways looking like your filming is going to draw less attention than doing something people don't recognize.

I would definitely opt for wireless. You could rent a pair for the day pretty affordably. You should not have interference problems, just scan for some open channels. The other option would be to boom. If you look "student filmmaker" nobody is going to pay much attention. Once they know no star is going to pop up they will be back to shopping. People film all the time, unless you look like a big production or a news show most folks will completely ignore you.

On the other hand if you send some folks trailing wires into a crowded shopping center like union square you might get some very paranoid reactions.

In SF we had a DP get picked up and questioned because he was shooting some time-laps tests of the Bay Bridge. Drivers thought he looked "suspicious" and he got to spend a few hours of quality time with Homeland security proving he was a filmmaker and not "casing" the bridge.
 
Noiz2 said:
I've done a fair amount of non attention grabbing sound work in NYC.

A boom would probably not distract the people all that much but if your shooting under the wire you may attract the attention of higher authorities.

But having wires dangling of of two moving actors is likely to get more attention. That might look "suspicious" and in post 9-11 america that can get you a lot of attention of a kind you don't want. So in someways looking like your filming is going to draw less attention than doing something people don't recognize.

I would definitely opt for wireless. You could rent a pair for the day pretty affordably. You should not have interference problems, just scan for some open channels. The other option would be to boom. If you look "student filmmaker" nobody is going to pay much attention. Once they know no star is going to pop up they will be back to shopping. People film all the time, unless you look like a big production or a news show most folks will completely ignore you.

On the other hand if you send some folks trailing wires into a crowded shopping center like union square you might get some very paranoid reactions.

In SF we had a DP get picked up and questioned because he was shooting some time-laps tests of the Bay Bridge. Drivers thought he looked "suspicious" and he got to spend a few hours of quality time with Homeland security proving he was a filmmaker and not "casing" the bridge.
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Nice, thanks for the advice. Yeah, from my experience you can get a lot of filming done without interruption, even with tripods and no permits. Since 9/11 the laws have become a little more relaxed. As long as you're not throwing up lights of jibs then its OK. But wireless or boom pole do sound like viable options now that I think about it. Wireless seems more ideal.
 
Just another consideration...
Aside from often having a less than natural presence in a narrative, lavs are either going to be susceptible to wind noise if exposed or prone to fabric, cable noise if covered. Although conspicuous, you can be relatively sure a decent Zeppelin with furry will deal with any wind issues...won't work if shooting wide.

Having wires dangling or trailing walking actors leaves you open to liability if someone trips over them etc.

If for some reason, someone goes with a recorder on the talent, I believe a couple of the Sony models have the ability to record a backup at a lower level. Maybe the H1 can internally split the mic input to two channels and allow different record levels for each?

Oh...if you go wireless, see if you can rent a couple Zaxcom wireless that transmit as well as record. Probably expensive..but would give you the best of both worlds in a body mic situation.
 
I'm pretty sure you don't need permits in NYC as long as you don't have some sort of advanced setup, so trying to fly under the radar should not be a concern. (This is fairly recent I believe)

Now here is the deal with the wireless around major cities - It is not reliable. With clothing noise and wind noise aside (you did say they were walking right? You will have clothing noise.) NYC is a RF nightmare, especially around the 5th ave/union station area. Assuming you didn't pay for 250mw transmitters (which are still not that reliable near time square) you will need to stay within around 10 feet of your actors to have a reliable enough signal.

I really think trying to do this wirelessly is more of a hassle that it is worth. I think wired options and a dedicated sound guy who knows his stuff will get you a lot farther than trying to piece together some sort of wireless contraption. like I said, you shouldn't need a permit unless you are doing a full setup, and the people of NYC mind enough of their own business / are used to people filming in the area, wont even think twice about what you are doing so you can "preserve your natural enviornment"
 
'Technically'.. in Manhattan, anytime you put down a tripod, you are required to have a shooting permit. However, in my experience and observations, the NYPD only shakes you down, if you block sidewalks or otherwise inhibit normal pedestrian or vehicle movement.
 
from what I was just told, not anymore. In fact they wont even give you a permit unless you have a full setup...because you don't need it.
 
+10 on wireless. If you want to go incognito, all gear can be placed in a duffel bag and your audio guy can monitor with headphones. How many people do you see on the street with a duffel/gym bag and a set of headphones? He could even be 20 feet in front of the rest of the cast/crew, or just chilling against a building like some random person.
 
please take my advice. I have shot films all over the place. NYC, especially in that area, is not a place for wireless. unless you want to spend the money on some 250mw lectros, then you have a chance.
 
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