C300: Using a Canon 1DX Mark II as B cam with a C300ll

jcadge

jcadge

Active member
Hello,

I produce mostly corporate/non-profit interview style videos using a C300ll shooting 4K as my A camera and at times my C300 as my side view on slider B-cam.

I'm thinking of purchasing a Canon 1DX Mark II to use as my B-cam shooting 4K and giving me the opportunity to film 4K 60P B-roll.

At times we also film against green screen and I understand the 1DX shooting 4K has 4:2:2 color space.

I like the form factor of the DSLR when filming B-roll using a monopod in tight spaces.

Has anyone shot with the 1DX along side the C300ll, if so were you pleased with the result & how did the cameras match in post?

Thanks,

Jeff Cadge
 
Hi Jeff, you can match the C300 II and 1DX II fairly well by choosing the appropriate settings for each camera:


Settings (all set to 4800K WB, 1/48 or 1/50 shutter):

A7S II: Canon 24-105 F4L (+MB IV), 105mm, F5.6, ISO 1600, Slog 2 + SGamut3.cine + 16 Sat, 4K 100Mbps

C300 II: Canon 24-70 F2.8 II at 70mm, F5.6, ISO 400, Canon Log 2, Cinema gamut, Production Matrix (Alexa-LUT-compatible settings), 1080p 50Mbps IPB

1DX II: Canon 24-105 F4L at 105mm, F5.6, ISO 400, Faithful profile (with contrast turned down), 1080p IPB (~32Mbps)

Spent only a few minutes keying and matching the shots (PP CC Lumetri + Ultra Key).

I've since created custom camera settings to more closely match the C300 II and the 1DX II, including for live/streaming applications (no grading). Google "Filmic Skin".
 
I have shot a good deal with the 1DXM2 as a B-cam to the C300 Mark II. Haven't done any green screen with the 1DX Mark II but have done a lot of interviews.

I don't use the same settings as JCS.

1DX Mark II: Neutral; 0, -2, -1, 0 for sharpness, contrast, saturation, and color tone. But I also made a custom profile which bumps the mids and raises the shadows to about 30. This gives me a faux log. It doesn't protect the highlights at all (the 1DX Mark II can't do that) but it gives me more control over the shadows. The 1DX Mark II can be a bit contrasty even with the contrast turned down in the camera so the Custom Profile overcomes that. It should also be noted that since the 1DX Mark II has its inefficient data rate mpeg codec - it also has the ability to pull a lot of details out of the shadows.

C300 Mark II: Rec 709/Wide DR.

The match is between the two cameras is close but does need some further tweaking post to make them align.

Blog post I did which goes into all of the above: http://blog.jonroemer.com/2018/05/two-camera-office-interview-senator-george-j-mitchell/

Blog post I did on the 1DX Mark II which has 60P and shadow recovery samples: http://blog.jonroemer.com/2016/06/rodeo-sunset-canon-1dx-mark-ii-test-run/
 
Here's the two cameras shot using Filmic Skin. Only adjustments in post were slight exposure, WB, and saturation. Could do another example with the latest version of Filmic Skin for the C300 II if there's interest- think they can be matched even better in camera now. This was a quick test a few months ago, one camera was using the Canon 24-70 F2.8 II and the other the 24-105 F4L (not carefully set up for equivalence (slightly different crop factor for each camera (4K)); have another 24-105 F4L- could use on both cameras). Have also gotten these cameras to match fairly closely over HDMI for live streaming.

1DX2C3002.jpg
 
Just my 2 cents...I’ve had a 1DX mark ii and C200 for a year now and sold the 1DX for a second C200. Pain in the ass matching despite how much I love big cameras. 1DX is very contrasty and often harsh (I would shoot in 4K).

I finally gave up try to match.
 
aygie said:
Just my 2 cents...I’ve had a 1DX mark ii and C200 for a year now and sold the 1DX for a second C200. Pain in the ass matching despite how much I love big cameras. 1DX is very contrasty and often harsh (I would shoot in 4K).

I finally gave up try to match.
Click to expand...

You can use a custom picture style to fix the contrast issue on the 1DX II. See example above.
 
How come you recommend 'faithful' and not 'neutral' with contrast turned down? (Just wondering.)
 
NorBro said:
How come you recommend 'faithful' and not 'neutral' with contrast turned down? (Just wondering.)
Click to expand...

I had good luck with faithful on the 5D3 and I liked the look at the time on the 1DX II. If you're going to do a bit of post work, there's not a big difference between faithful and neutral. I later found that turning the contrast all the way down hurt skin tones. Creating a custom picture style that generalized for all skin tones turned into a huge task of tweaking, testing, tuning, and retrying until it a general solution was achieved. Also tested and discarded along the way was log emulations- had a similar effect in hurting skin tones as turning the contrast all the way down. Once the 1DX II was optimized with the custom picture styles, I did the same thing for the C300 II, which turned out to take even more time (+ no Picture Style editor). The final result is the cameras can be matched closely for live streaming over HDMI (where grading isn't an option, though OBS now support LUTs) as well as in-camera as shown above.

Here's another example with the 1DX II:
AJ_WTS_GenC.jpg


While the C300 II has a bit better highlight behavior and is more malleable in post (10 or 12-bit vs. 8-bit), I prefer the 1DX II color for the straight-out-of-camera look.
 
aygie said:
Just my 2 cents...I’ve had a 1DX mark ii and C200 for a year now and sold the 1DX for a second C200. Pain in the ass matching despite how much I love big cameras. 1DX is very contrasty and often harsh (I would shoot in 4K).

I finally gave up try to match.
Click to expand...

It worked ok for me when I used a custom C-log colour profile and used FilmConvert on both sets of footage, but I can see how it can be hard to match because the camera doesn't have a native Clog2/3. I've mixed the camera in terms of having them shoot different things (establishers, montages, 2nd unit) within the same project, but never intercutting between an off angle of the same subject. Has anyone tried the 5D4 with Clog? Any easier? If there was a decent way to use ACES wit the 5D4 it would be quite enticing, a lot easier starting point to match with and has a decent base look once you reduce the saturation to 40.
 
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