C100: Urgent!!! - 60i and 30p to 24p Conversion

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shorty15

Well-known member
So I'm in a really bad situation here.

I am working on a thesis project short film shot on a Canon C100 with A Ninja Blade recorder. We had a novice camera Op on the 2nd camera. We were foolishly only recording to the Ninja instead of running dual record with SD cards. In one of the scenes, the frame rate on the Ninja was accidentally turned to 60i and 30p on a pretty sizable number of shots instead of the 24p that the camera was set to. One of our crew guys said that you can convert the bad frame rates into 24p but I'm skeptical and think that the shots will need to be reshot. Im worried that these converted shots will look way worse than the other shots filmed properly and it will not match up in post.

I've tried to look around the web for info but so far I've only found videos for converting 60i to 24p for slow motion. We need to have the converted play back at normal speeds. Is this doable or are we totally up a creek without a paddle?
 
I think you'll be fine. Just throw it in a 24p timeline and render out. Sometime I get projects dropped on my plate from other teams entirely shot in 30p and get requested to render out in 24. It's not a huge deal....and not hard at all.

if anything, use the 30p for a subtle slow motion in areas where you want a dreamy look (interpret to 24) and others you want to force in 24... Just make sure you have the 30p footage in a 24p time line...and render out.
 
Oh...by the way...your camera op may be novice for not checking camera settings with the other ops....but you may have also had an element of "novice" by not checking to make sure your team was on the same page.

Always....always, set up the conversation in advance to make your your DP and camera ops have properly configured their rigs and that's audio has been checked.

I wouldnt jump out of a plane without asking if the parashoot had been properly setup. Just a thought.


Only thing to check....MAKE SURE... The footage does NOT looks interlaced or studder. Sometime on the C100 and ninja 2 ...I MUST change setting on the camera AND the ninja. If not, the ninja will attempt to record one frame rate, while the C100 outputs a different frame rate. The footage comes out looking like it is interlaced....but it's not.....it's actually corrupted. THEN....you have a problem. Check on that.
 
ReelWorksMedia;1986500789} said:
Only thing to check....MAKE SURE... The footage does NOT looks interlaced or studder. Sometime on the C100 and ninja 2 ...I MUST change setting on the camera AND the ninja. If not, the ninja will attempt to record one frame rate, while the C100 outputs a different frame rate. The footage comes out looking like it is interlaced....but it's not.....it's actually corrupted. THEN....you have a problem. Check on that.
Click to expand...

The footage does look interlaced and yes, the camera was set to record in 24p but the ninja was interpreting it as 60i in some shots and 30p in other shots.
 
I am sorry to hear this. I discovered this when i first got the Ninja 2. During concert events, I would switch frame rates on the C100 later to discover that, when changing frame rates/", you must change it on both units...or the result is a corrupted video file.

I always work redundantly, as you should as well, so for those shoots, I just used the AVCHD backup and no one was the wiser.

At the time, I searched online to get answers. I tried various methods to deinterlace via Red Giant and other software products. I found that others had encountered this and classified it as a "corruption."

So " I believe" your files are damaged. If someone ( possibly Erik Naso) has a solution, I would love to know how to repair this.

Next time....definitely record internally as well. It's so cheap and easy...I would see no reason not to protect yourself.
 
Also, it's probably best not to jump into a production environment attempting to overcrank on a camera that was never intended to natively do so without proper testing. Also, the director/producer should have been overseeing this and approved or disapproved it's implementation in set. IMO
 
It's not a huge deal, as long as your C100 was still set to 24p during the recording. My Ninja Blade accidentally also gets reset to 60i from time to time (while the C100 is set to 24p), and it hasn't been a big difference in quality. Drop your Ninja file into a 24p timeline and it will look fine - occasionally you'll notice the image flicker, that's about it.

Cheers -
 
shorty15 said:
So I'm in a really bad situation here.

I am working on a thesis project short film shot on a Canon C100 with A Ninja Blade recorder. We had a novice camera Op on the 2nd camera. We were foolishly only recording to the Ninja instead of running dual record with SD cards. In one of the scenes, the frame rate on the Ninja was accidentally turned to 60i and 30p on a pretty sizable number of shots instead of the 24p that the camera was set to. One of our crew guys said that you can convert the bad frame rates into 24p but I'm skeptical and think that the shots will need to be reshot. Im worried that these converted shots will look way worse than the other shots filmed properly and it will not match up in post.

I've tried to look around the web for info but so far I've only found videos for converting 60i to 24p for slow motion. We need to have the converted play back at normal speeds. Is this doable or are we totally up a creek without a paddle?
Click to expand...

What you've described doesn't really make sense.

That said, in theory, if the above actually happened, you can run a conversion in Compressor that will result in zero loss of quality and you'll be as good as if it were all recorded in 24p. Dropping the files directly into the timeline, however, will present issues, as the cadence won't be correct.

I can send you a compressor droplet that will take care of this.
 
Policar said:
What you've described doesn't really make sense.

That said, in theory, if the above actually happened, you can run a conversion in Compressor that will result in zero loss of quality and you'll be as good as if it were all recorded in 24p. Dropping the files directly into the timeline, however, will present issues, as the cadence won't be correct.

I can send you a compressor droplet that will take care of this.
Click to expand...

Have you actually done this and had it work for this "exact" situation...with a C100 and Blade (or Ninja)? I'm honestly asking because I would like to know if this does work. I "believe" that the external recorder does not actually record the video data properly...and abnormalities creep into the footage that is a separate issue than just a frame rate conversion. I was under the impression that when sending out a 24P signal...and the external is tracking as 60i...it is not a frame rate issue. A corruption is written into the actual video files that is a separate issue than frame rates at that point. It shows up in what looks like interlaced footage and doubling of images on certain frames....though the issue (corruption) is burned into the image. Even when you convert it back...the corruption would still be visually present.

I have tried similar methods without success.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
Have you actually done this and had it work for this "exact" situation...with a C100 and Blade (or Ninja)? I'm honestly asking because I would like to know if this does work. I "believe" that the external recorder does not actually record the video data properly...and abnormalities creep into the footage that is a separate issue than just a frame rate conversion. I was under the impression that when sending out a 24P signal...and the external is tracking as 60i...it is not a frame rate issue. A corruption is written into the actual video files that is a separate issue than frame rates at that point. It shows up in what looks like interlaced footage and doubling of images on certain frames....though the issue (corruption) is burned into the image. Even when you convert it back...the corruption would still be visually present.

I have tried similar methods without success.
Click to expand...

What settings do you have in your compressor droplet? You want to have frame controls on, deinterlace set to reverse telecine, and your video settings under the encoder tab set to 23.976 manually when selecting to codec.

With the Ninja 2 I've often had trouble getting the 24p signal to lock on, so I'll just shoot with the recorder set to 60i and then deinterlace in compressor, no problem. In theory 30p is just 60i without the interlace flag, so should behave the same in compressor.

I have had the Ninja guess the pulldown cadence wrong and record in 24p mangling the footage, but I really don't think what you're referring to is likely to happen. At least not with the Ninja 2, maybe with the other models they behave differently? But I doubt it.

That said I have seen clips with weird pulldown issues from time to time related to a poor HDMI connection and once or twice they were inexplicably unsalvageable, but generally I think these were when I was recording in 24p...
 
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