FS7: Upgrading to an amira from fs7?

T

TheHHgallery

Member
hey,
i have a big job coming up and they want to shoot on an arri, so im thinking about buying an amira.
i know that it feels like downgrading specwise plus the sensor is six years old. But the picture is still stellar.
i also worry arri is going to drop something new soon.

what are you guys thinking? Getting one? Is it really going to be an upgrade?
thanks for youropinions...
 
I have the same idea in my head for a while now and hope for that one big shoot to come in to justify the expense and just get rid of the fs7 :) If you can afford it I would not hesitate for a minute. As you said, the pic is stellar. Handling is also so much nicer than fs7. And resale value is great if you decide to sell it again, as used ones are hard to find. And with client work and clients on set, the reality is that big names like Arri and Red do count, like it or not.
 
The Amira is absolutely an upgrade, it's a move from a 'prosumer' camera to a 'pro' camera. So don't let the specs fool you, not all sensors and processing boards are created equal. And if it makes you feel any better - as for the whole 4k/2k thing, 3.2k on the Amira is actually only 25% less spatial resolution than 4k on the FS7 (so it's not the 75% less that most 2k/4k comparisons would have you believe).

Then there's things like HFR, the Arri looks fantastic in full-frame, right up to its 200fps limit. The FS7 looks rubbish from 61-180fps at full frame, and required the centre crop mode to yield acceptable results.

Personally, I think if you can stretch to an Amira, you should probably try and stretch a little further to the Mini (which is considerably more popular, and can be rigged into something quite practical - though not as practical as the Amira, which is setup beautifully).

So in short, if you've got work to justify it, I wouldn't hesitate to make the upgrade. Although hearsay would have you believe that 4k is here and now and necessary - the reality is a long way short of that, and it'll be years before and significant number of jobs will finish in anything above 2k.
 
that is a very very expensive camera, if you can justify it, and they pay you a good rate for the big job then go for it. but if its only a couple days i would consider renting one!
 
Jim Ritscher said:
Projects get canceled at the last moment. I would want an advance payment.
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I've been burned by this a few times trying to get ahead of things and anticipate needs for projects before the ink is dry and advance given. Nothing as large as an Amira but it still stings taking on a financial burden when a project falls through.
 
Jim Ritscher said:
Projects get canceled at the last moment. I would want an advance payment.
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Exactly. Who in this business hasn't had the golden carrot waved in front of them only to have it taken away at the last moment?

In the UK I can hire an Amira+Cabrio for £500/d and decent terms for weekly and monthly rentals that leave plenty of scope for coining it in on your day rate. There's no need to saddle your business with unnecessary risk and long term overheads for the golden carrot.

There's so many high spec cameras being owned by people who don't have the work to justify them that the rental market is flooded with cameras and the rental rates are depressed to bargain levels. The next wave of cameras will only saturate the market even more so for me it's becoming more difficult to justify owning big ticket gear.
 
No idea about your business model, but it would have to be a very lucrative paying job for me to purchase a camera for a single gig.
 
Amira+Cabrio for £500/d is hard to find in Germany. (Any hint or offer is welcome)
 
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Clermond said:
Amira+Cabrio for £500/d is hard to find in Germany. (Any hint or offer is welcome)
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I can't remember the hire company, it was London based I know for sure.

I was looking for another FS7 to rent while mine is being fixed and was shocked how low the Amira package was, £250/d plus about the same for the Cabrio.
 
David W. Jones said:
No idea about your business model, but it would have to be a very lucrative paying job for me to purchase a camera for a single gig.
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If it's only a few weeks, yeah that would be tough to buy a specific, expensive camera for a single job, unless you know it's gonna bring food to the table after it's over too, but something more long term and it may be a no-brainer. My business model isn't based on renting gear for my shoots, but I also don't live in the commercial/narrative world where it's Alexa's, RED's and grip trucks for every shoot, either. I bought my first HD camera(tape VariCam when they were still $45K), because I was being brought in on a gig covering a sport that basically runs 10 months out of the year. I think in that first year I grossed at least 8x+ what the camera cost.
 
Egads... I still haven't paid of my second EX1, nor my EX3 from gross income. The recital video business dried up after 2009.
 
MartinF said:
Handling is also so much nicer than fs7.
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The image and menu layout are top notch on the Arris.

However, I'm wondering if the idea of heavy ENG cameras handling better is more nostalgia than reality? I've lifted Amira and its heavy (10 lb body). Lately, I've been shooting a lot of ENG jobs with the Panasonic HPX600 which is similar weight (maybe a bit lighter) and ergonomics to the Amira and I HATE it. Even on the shoulder which is suppose to be the plus of added weight, I don't see that much of a benefit in contrast to having lug around the camera and the heavier tripod to support the camera. All your rigs, tripods, jibs, steadycams, etc... All have to be considerably heavier / more expensive to support the much heavier cameras.

its just so tiring compared to the FS7 which is a breeze to work with all day and not even break a sweat. Shooting from the waist or low angle with the handle is so much easier with lighter cameras as well.

There's a reason why companies are making lighter camera and probably why the Alexa Mini Is so popular. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I just can't deal with all that extra weight all day, which I've been doing pretty regularly lately with my ENG crew.
 
yea gene, this is also my biggest concern, the weight of the amira. Ive been to the techrecce yesterday and brought my fs7, we were running around all day, imagine doing that with an amira is just a pain.
i own the easy rig mini, im not even sure if this will support the amira :D
But i got two type of shoots, i still got the smaller more eng style shoots but also coming in more bigger stuff, so i can't sell the fs7.
Main reason is i just think i reached the limits of the fs7 and i can't stand the inconsistency on skin tones and color overall anymore, maybe thats a bigger pain than the weight...(always shot cineEI mode, sometimes
it looks stunning, sometimes completely off, never experienced something like that with an arri) i wish i could come up with 10k more and just go with the alexa mini...
 
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If I was looking to upgrade from my FS7, I'd seriously be considering a Panasonic Varicam LT. The price point is far better than the Amira, and everything I'm seeing out of it looks gorgeous. I'm waiting until this summer when they release their RAW upgrade to make a decision, but I'm extremely tempted right now.
 
C300MKII also ought to be considered. On run&gun shoots, its auto focus can be very handy and its image is quite nice as well.
 
I've been shooting lots of corporate style documentaries with the FS7 ever since it came out. I had the Amira on my shoulder at the rental house the other day and there is no way i could run around with it all day, way too heavy. As others have said already, we shoot a lot of stuff where I don't have the camera on my shoulder and that's where an easyrig isn't really practical either.
For me, the FS7 is very consistent with skin tones, our usual grading approach is using Bert's Arrilook for FS7 TrueBalanced, then use a Rec709 to Visioncolor Impulz Tetrachrome FC look. Then fine tune the picture and do secondary corrections. It usually gets the skin tones and the general look in the right direction.
I don't think the price of the Arri justifies the upgrade from the FS7. You're already getting a stellar picture with the FS7 with lots of DR that can really shine when handled the right way in post.
 
I think we reached a plateaux where all these cameras perform very well. Overall if you are not happy with the imagery you are getting 9 times out of 10 it has nothing to do with the camera and no other camera would have delivered great results where another "failed" it's all down to nuances.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Its just so tiring compared to the FS7 which is a breeze to work with all day and not even break a sweat. Shooting from the waist or low angle with the handle is so much easier with lighter cameras as well.

There's a reason why companies are making lighter camera and probably why the Alexa Mini Is so popular. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I just can't deal with all that extra weight all day, which I've been doing pretty regularly lately with my ENG crew.
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Agreed. I'm working on a show right now w/Amira + the Canon 17-120 + matte box + battery, hops and it's easily 30lbs. We're using EasyRigs just to get through the day and even that is brutal. Compared to my FS7, it's a chore! My FS7 kit is lightweight and flexible. Getting alternate angles w/the FS7 is a breeze. W/the Amira, it's tricky to get low quickly or adjust on the fly.
 
TheHHgallery said:
Main reason is i just think i reached the limits of the fs7 and i can't stand the inconsistency on skin tones and color overall anymore, maybe thats a bigger pain than the weight...(always shot cineEI mode, sometimes
it looks stunning, sometimes completely off, never experienced something like that with an arri) i wish i could come up with 10k more and just go with the alexa mini...
Click to expand...

As someone else mentioned further down, the color consistency improves with BertLUT for sure. LC709a sometimes looks great, other times it's magenta city.

As for the Alexa Mini, that's a weird camera. Arri tried to do a Red body, but they did not do it right - Fan out back where the battery should be (terrible idea), no mounting points and no scratch audio = pretty massive rigging. Even though Red is not on your radar, I feel like the new DSMC2 bodies are really well designed, really light and much better body design than the Alexa Mini.

But Alexa does have that fantastic image and the most color consistent camera IMO.

Yeah, the Amira would kill me over the course of a day, as does my ENG Panasonic. Plus, with heavier cameras you can do less these days. I was reading an interview with the director of Guardians of the Galaxies II, and he choose Red specifically because it's a small camera that he could rig in a million crazy ways that he could not with larger body cameras.
 
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