C300: Upgrading from my DSLR

I think that it's certainly fine to look at a F5 if you're considering a C300. However, the caveat of the bigger specs of the F5 is that it has a significantly higher cost, and you have to consider that. You can purchase everything you need to run a C300 for several days without charging a battery or downloading a single card for less than the price of a body only F5 with no monitoring solution, no battery, & no media. There's something to be said for that.

I agree that testing cameras is always a smart way to go - and also consider what's important for your business, the type of productions you shoot, your lens preferences, and your clients needs. If a C300 is a stretch, certainly look the other direction and test out a C100 as well. We are fortunate to have myriad options in camera models that all can give you ridiculously high-value quality at virtually every price bracket. There is no "x is better than y" anymore. Everything is subjective according to your own individual needs and preferences, and should be assessed as such.
 
Unfortunately I can't easily rent cameras but will see if I can travel to try some out. C100/Ninja2 does also sound appealing. I realise you lose some of the great things about the C300 but for the price... Just have to decide whether it's worth the extra 4k for the C300 when the image quality is basically the same.
 
My personal opinion is that the C100 with the stock codec would be more than enough for your corporate and run n' gun side of work. Add a Ninja when you're making films or have a more evenly paced set. If you use slow-mo a lot though, the FS700 is well worth a look - but I find the ergonomics a little rough for run 'n gun work. You could always rent one on days you need slow motion coverage from one of the numerous mail-order rental companies (lensrentals, borrowlenses, magnanimous media, etc). Or try the 60i to 24p slow motion interpolation method - I know several C100 users that have found that to work quite well for them, and it actually looks quite good; quite a step up from DSLR 720p.

The C100 would be a wise financial move if you don't have pressing needs for the premium utilities of a C300 package. The camera market is ever evolving, and the lower overhead you have (in terms of financing or credit card debt), the healthier your business will be and the easier it will be to upgrade when the time is right. Besides that, the smart money is on lenses. That's my $0.02.

Whatever you do, just don't spend more than you can afford. Creativity suffers when you bite off more than you can chew; and if you lose your passion because you're concerned about payments, then what's the point?
 
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cowpunk52 said:
My personal opinion is that the C100 with the stock codec would be more than enough for your corporate and run n' gun side of work. Add a Ninja when you're making films or have a more evenly paced set. If you use slow-mo a lot though, the FS700 is well worth a look - but I find the ergonomics a little rough for run 'n gun work. You could always rent one on days you need slow motion coverage from one of the numerous mail-order rental companies (lensrentals, borrowlenses, magnanimous media, etc). Or try the 60i to 24p slow motion interpolation method - I know several C100 users that have found that to work quite well for them, and it actually looks quite good; quite a step up from DSLR 720p.

The C100 would be a wise financial move if you don't have pressing needs for the premium utilities of a C300 package. The camera market is ever evolving, and the lower overhead you have (in terms of financing or credit card debt), the healthier your business will be and the easier it will be to upgrade when the time is right. Besides that, the smart money is on lenses. That's my $0.02.

Whatever you do, just don't spend more than you can afford. Creativity suffers when you bite off more than you can chew; and if you lose your passion because you're concerned about payments, then what's the point?
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+1

I use a GH3 for over cranking it looks pretty darn good.
 
Thanks guys. Will do some more reading up. The ninja sounds like a great bit of kit to help with the poorly positioned EVF too.
 
Joe Stas said:
Thanks guys. Will do some more reading up. The ninja sounds like a great bit of kit to help with the poorly positioned EVF too.
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The Ninja 2 monitor isn't so great and outside it's rally hard to use. An EVF isn't mandatory either but helps for the one big issue with the C100 has. It's viewfinder. The downside to adding all these external devices is the camera gets big and unstable for handheld. On a tripod its fine. I like the C300 a lot and use that at work. Out of the box it's the easiest camera I've ever used.
For the C100 I don't think an external recorder is a must have item because the AVCHD codec is pretty darn good. Editing it is pain but transcoding to ProRes is a lot easier than dealing with the recorder on the camera all day. YMMV.
 
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Cameras are disposable items these days. Doesn't make sense to invest much in them as they last around 2 years, and then become obsolete.
Not that they stop working after a new one gets introduced, mind you, but your competitor will get that new one and will offer your clients all you can't: 60p, slow motion 240, more dynamic range, cleaner green screen plates... whatever. So unless you update, you're sort of dead.

Also rental prices have gone down spectacularly. Today you can rent a fully equipped ALEXA, with 6 UltraPrimes, oConnor 25 head+various legs plus all the ARRI FF, MB accss, Batts, 9"... etc, ALL THAT for under 1k/day (times 3 for a week). What's the point of buying anything at those prices? (or use anything other than an ALEXA).


Ok, for indies who deal with low-end budgets and use to own their own equipment, the decision has to be related to the sort of project to shoot: run and gun doc-style, corporate, commercial, social, etc.

At this point I won't consider the C300/C500 as Sony have nuked them with the F5/55. Canon knew it in advance, but they took the "window of opportunity" to sell as many as possible to the broadcast market (doco, reality) while the competition was going to be just the F3 and Pana micro4/3 (none 422). The window of opportunity has closed and those Canons are dead. They soon will be replaced as Canon is not moving any these days.

On the other hand, the C100 has hit a sweet spot now at just €4k+VAT. It does requires the ninja2 for anything beyond social shoots, but that still makes it under €6k incl VAT. That's a HUGE price difference to the C300, for essentially the same IQ.
You could also get a BMCC which is now FREE (if you discount Resolve price -which used to be $100k!), for commercials or any controlled shooting kind of work; its IQ blows any camera below €25k and it doesn't look video-y like the Canons.
You even could add a 5D3 (for stills+RAW), and you're still under €10k and have 3 cams, rather than a single C300 for €13k, which, is already "obsolete" and its s/h price is going under fast.


Anywya, again, invest the money NOT on cameras, but on a good Sachtler, ARRI MatteBox and FFs, good NDs, Kino Flos+HMIs (as the new Profoto 800w ProDaylights), good mics+transmiters and of course, Lenses. Those are the items that will outlast MANY cameras.
 
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The F5 and 55 have a lot of potential, when they are completed via firmware. I have tested and shot with both as well as the FS700. The latter does not have the polished image of the C300--artifacts on high to low frequency transitions, a bit softer, noise is coarse and unfilmlike. DR is good. Ergonomics nightmarish.

Other Rental houses in my market and large resellers tell me the F55 is doing better than the F5, and that F55 sales have fallen since they were hot at release. Put two F55's together and their color won't match, and it's over $30K. F5 is $20K to actually shoot with, C300 is $15K ready to shoot. I have a friend with an F5 and it's been a challenge. No waveform, no external auto white button, no audio trim pots. Workflow has been a challenge.

C300 is the most popular rental video camera in the world. Easy and fun to shoot with, travel with, edit with. It is the EX1 of large sensor cameras. Look how long the EX1 and EX3 have been viable, still selling for 50% of their new cost or more after over 5 years on the market. I am not getting calls for F5 or F55 yet. The bigger rental houses in town have six or more C300's vs. two F5's and F55's. C100, FS700 make more sense for owner/operators not doing the volume of a rental house.
 
Thanks for all the helpful replies. I think some of the above things have really made me lean towards the C100. Currently using a 7D and I manage to cope with run and gun. It's a pain in the arse so any shortcomings of the C100 are still going to be a lot better than what I'm used too.

This way I save some money also to put towards something else down the line. Be it lenses, or another camera.
 
Yep C100 is a great plan - you could even get a BMC too for your personal projects with C300 money!

It all depends the level - I am lucky to have lenses, sachler top end sticks and all the guff - if you have not got that stuff it should certainly be a priority over the camera body..

S
 
Joe Stas said:
Thanks for all the helpful replies. I think some of the above things have really made me lean towards the C100. Currently using a 7D and I manage to cope with run and gun. It's a pain in the arse so any shortcomings of the C100 are still going to be a lot better than what I'm used too.

This way I save some money also to put towards something else down the line. Be it lenses, or another camera.
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The C100 is a great run and gun camera. Think of it this way - its like your current camera but with all the features to make it even more useable, XLR inputs for audio, peaking, zebras, ergonomics (anyone who says it isn't ergonomic obviously hasn't used one for a day - all the reviews and users agree its one ergonomic camera!). I upgraded from a 550d to a C100 and it has made life so much easier. On a monopod and handheld the little extra weight is a good thing making it more stable. I've added a Gorilla baseplate and follow focus which isn't much extra weight and have the ideal mini rig. I was hanging off a boat with this setup yesterday filming a kayak race handheld! The pistol grip and movable LCD screen were a boon. None of the fuss and awkwardness I had with a DSLR! As Erik said and as many have found the Ninja isn't adding as much to the image quality as the specs suggest but its a nice addition and I use mine for high end work and stock footage.
C100 Rig 004.jpg
In the end you will get 100 different opinions on forums like these, but in the end its over to you to decide.
 
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