Upgrading from HVX200 - Suggestions?

Kyle Fordrung

Kyle Fordrung

Member
Hey Folks.

After almost two years of using my HVX200, I'm beginning to get tired of the slow offload speeds, space and cost restrictions of P2 cards, and the low-light problems. I'm thinking of trading her in for something a little more contemporary.

Anyone have any suggestions for a camera that has comparable features to the HVX (but preferably runs on cheaper media) - 4:2:2 color, 3 chip, 1080p, 60p capable.

I would like to stay in the $2000 range, and I'm fine with buying used.
 
Once you add lenses and external recorder to take advantage of 4:2:2, an AF100 will put you well over $2000. Heck, a lensed-up GH3 would put you over $2000.

Canon XF100 is in the right price and spec range, but doesn't do 1080p60 (will do 720p60)... I tested one to replace my HVX's duties as well, and it's definitely a cleaner image - never wound up pulling the trigger due to other non-tech stuff.

For that matter, I don't think there's a professional 1080p60 consumer camera in that price range... the AC160A may be the closest and runs about $4K, but doesn't do internal 4:2:2
 
4:2:2 color, 3 chip, 1080p, 60p capable.
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no. not for anywhere near your price target : (

the hvx200/hpx170 were pretty much the last "budget pro" CCD cameras. everything is CMOS these days. : (

with all the hubub over DSLRs and BMCCs a LOT of short-sighted folks are selling off their hpx170s pretty cheap ($1500-$1700 often even LESS). what i might suggest is a used hpx170 (FAR better in low light than the hvx200) and a blackmagic hyperdeck shuttle and a couple mid sized SSDs. it will add $500-$1000 or so to your budget. but its probably the only way to meet your needs without tripling (or quadrupling) your budget.

but id ask you what kind of work you do? unless you shoot news, competitive sports or a lot of run and gun, you also might appreciate a DSLR...
(i just looked at your website. and i dont see anything there that would be problematic for a DSLR. and quite honestly it looks JUST RIGHT for DSLR uses. you wont get the 4:2:2. but id ask, do you really NEED that?)
 
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wgzn said:
the hvx200/hpx170 were pretty much the last "budget pro" CCD cameras. everything is CMOS these days. : (
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I'm not entirely opposed to CMOS cameras. I guess I'm a little behind the times, I've only ever shot on 3CCD cams, ever since college (DVX100b, PD-150, XL2, HVX200).
From what I've seen there are some serious benefits to large-sensor CMOS cameras - I just haven't had much experience with them.

wgzn said:
what i might suggest is a used hpx170 (FAR better in low light than the hvx200) and a blackmagic hyperdeck shuttle and a couple mid sized SSDs.
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This is definitely one of the options that I've been considering. My main gripes with the HVX (which, admittedly, is still one hell of a workhorse) are the relatively low-resolution for an HD cam, low-light noise, and P2 transfer speeds. I haven't read much about the Black Magic hyperdeck - is that a capture station for P2 cards specifically, or do you run an HD SDI out to it?

wgzn said:
but id ask you what kind of work you do? unless you shoot news, competitive sports or a lot of run and gun, you also might appreciate a DSLR...
(i just looked at your website. and i dont see anything there that would be problematic for a DSLR. and quite honestly it looks JUST RIGHT for DSLR uses. you wont get the 4:2:2. but id ask, do you really NEED that?)
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The majority of my work has (recently) been wedding videos and corporate promos - "About Us" videos, and "Company Culture" type stuff. My goal is to get deeper into video journalism and documentary production.

While the 4:2:2 isn't absolutely necessary, it makes my life a hell of a lot easier when I'm shooting a company presentation on a green screen, or when I want to do heavy grading for a music video or short film.



If I go the DSLR route, I might just keep my HVX, and get a 7D or something similar to use when I don't have the option of constantly offloading p2 in the field.
 
Kyle, you mentioned the cost of P2 cards. I buy used P2-R series cards from folks on this forum. I think the last I paid was $175 for a 16GB card. I have seen them recently to go for much less. I have had a HPX170 since 2009. Yes, it is a little low-rez compared to the latest and greatest but still looks great for the web and DVD projects. Used ones have gone down so far in price I will probably just keep mine until it wears out.
 
The hyperdeck shuttle 2 is an external recorder which records prores or dnxhd to exchangeable SSD's, you can run HDMI or HD-SDI signals into it - google helps :)

The HPX170 will give you 422 and better lowlight out of the box, but i don't think its worth to spend the extra 400 bucks for a hyperdeck, you will get faster transfer speeds but quite the same quality and even bigger files, also the HPX still shoots DVCProHD, the sharpness should be improved but don't expect full 1080p though...

Sounds like a hard decision....
 
Your best option is the AF100. Hands down. Internal sound, m43 sensor that you can use with any m43 glass you have, and you can get a used one for as little as 2400. Internal ND filters...too many goodies to name. The wedding videos being done on this camera are EPIC. Just a suggestion.
 
I'd say save you money for now. we are in a period of rapid camera tech development. next year at this time you will get a lot of camera for $2k
 
if you CAN wait. wait.
if you have billable work right now. get what will best serve your current needs.

if you NEED to upgrade now. you can more than make the money back in a year. and if not, you probably dont NEED to upgrade in the first place ; )
 
I've never used a Panasonic HPX250, but from what I understand and the footage I've seen of it, it sure does appear to be a solid upgrade from the HVX200a.
If I'm not mistaken, that camera is starting to drop in price a bit and if you can wait another year, it will be getting a lot closer to your desired price range.

Maybe someone who is more familiar with the HPX250 vs the HVX200 can elaborate more on this.
 
The footage Ive seen from HPX250 is exceptional for the price. 10 bit which is still pretty rare in that price point. About 2x the resolution of the HVX200a or HPX170, with a great zoom
 
the hpx250 is a CMOS camera. so if you shoot news/sports/events - anything where you might whip pan - you'll see CMOS "jello"
 
I keep my hvx200 for in studio shoot on green screen and use red giants's denoiser II to remove the noise and it wows the client as noise is literally gone while retaining the sharpness of the image. I also got myself a Canon 60D for on road easy travel shoot ( with a field recorder and a shotgun mic) or for my own indie films. The setup is working great for me, and if client is insistent of the latest, I can simple just go and rent the best available here. Like a RED or a Canon 5Diii. My philosophy is never go with the most current since it can be rented and you can always pass the cost to the client while retaining my own equipment and accessories that gives the best buck for my money I can buy.
 
I've pretty much taken to heart the advice that wgzn gave - only spend the money to upgrade if my workload can justify the expense.

So I'm going to wait another year and then go for an HPX250 or AF-100 once I've got a more solid client base.

Thanks for all the input, folks!
 
I went for the HPX 250. It has some quirks, like a non parfocal lens, that shifts focus during zoom in short distances, a CMOS sensor, that looks even more like video etc...but I had the HVX201 and batteries, P2 cards etc. were a good reason. The HPX 250 also has a LOT more low light possibilities and some great shutter and frame rate options. My main gripe is the non parfocal lens though...
I do like the CCD´s look more than CMOS.
 
Kyle Fordrung said:
Anyone have any suggestions for a camera that has comparable features to the HVX (but preferably runs on cheaper media) - 4:2:2 color, 3 chip, 1080p, 60p capable.

I would like to stay in the $2000 range, and I'm fine with buying used.
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Problem is, nearly all of the sub-$2000 cameras are capturing to AVCHD, typically at 8 bit 4:2:0. This footage will take a lot more grading than you'd think, but 10 bit 4:2:2 would be obviously be better for heavy grading.

Two up coming cameras to keep an eye on maybe: Panasonic AJ-PX270, probably officially announcing in the spring at NAB 2014, and the Sony PXW-Z100 releasing early December. Both would seem to check off most of your boxes, except for your price. I know, but that's as close as I can get for 10 bit 4:2:2 and 1080p60. For $2000 you'll have to give up either the 10 bit 4:2:2 or the 1080p60 from what I can tell.
 
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