Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Fantastic review. Way to keep the tone positive, the comments realistic, and the appreciation for choice in mind. It gets at the fact that we are truly lucky to have each of these options available to us right now.

I know which one I want and can afford (hint: it's why I'm on this forum), but I certainly don't begrudge anyone else a different choice.

Thank you Philip! BTW, that F3 Christmas tree footage was f_ing sweet - nice bonus!
 
am I crazy for thinking the Af100 came in last on the dynamic range test? Don't know if it blew out sooner than the 5D but it definitely blew out uglier
 
Wow, I have to say, that was an EXCELLENT review of the cameras. Owning the AF100 and my feelings on it, I think Philip was very fair in his pointing out the pluses and the minuses. I'm also glad he spent so much time with the FS100 because there was a lot I wanted to see on it and I thought it was helpful. I also find it amusing that he see's the design shape as an epic lite like I had. Of course, I am 6'4" so for me, the LCD on the top is VERY NICE. Though, given how much lower I typically need to get the camera due to my height, my smallHD DP6 really will be used a lot.

One thing I'd like to add is that with the FS100 in 'EVF' mode if you will, it's just as bad as both the AF100 and the F3. I don't use the AF100 EVF ever, it's just not in a good spot for me. I kind of wish the next generation of cameras will make a removable EVF that can be positioned where-ever you want. At least there are solutions out now to give you that functionality if you need it.

Thanks again Philip, very appreciated.
 
Very nice. Since I care nothing for shallow DOF so far my thought is to stick with my EX3 for most of my shooting and get either the FS100 for low light only, or wait and see how the 5d mkIII looks in low light. Pretty much all I want is the option to shoot some really clean video in as little light as possible.

Yes I do have a few situations where I need that ability.
 
roughly, it looks like the f3 processing is better overall compared to the fs100, resolving the sensor information better for better highlight retention, even in the same 8 bit stream. they both look to be very good options though. fs100 would b cam for an f3 very easily. and a a stand alone would be a great choice overall coupled with a ninja.
 
metalalien said:
Very nice. Since I care nothing for shallow DOF so far my thought is to stick with my EX3 for most of my shooting and get either the FS100 for low light only, or wait and see how the 5d mkIII looks in low light. Pretty much all I want is the option to shoot some really clean video in as little light as possible.

Yes I do have a few situations where I need that ability.
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Really? It's hard to imagine not having the ability to direct the audience where I want them to go. For many of us, Dof is as much a tool as a tripod is.

I can see where you can be turned off by it the way so many shoot today, Especially with focus going in and out, and feeling like you need to get a presciption pair of bifocals.

But when it's used properly, shallow dof can make the shot and story work in ways that would otherwise be impossible.
 
Maran when I do need that I have found the EX cameras can give me "enough" shallow DOF for my taste, which admittedly is more for the deep end of the field. :)

edit: I suppose I should supply an example but be warned I am so far below you guys in my ability it's not even funny. All the shallow shots in this 2 minute short were in camera only, no adapters. Shot with my EX3. Phil if you want me to remove this link from your thread no problem!
http://www.vimeo.com/17552009
 
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An interesting aspect would be to stress out which one of these camcorders intercuts better with the footage from a Canon DSLR like the 5dmkII (I am thinking about event shooting for instance).
 
kostas said:
An interesting aspect would be to stress out which one of these camcorders intercuts better with the footage from a Canon DSLR like the 5dmkII (I am thinking about event shooting for instance).
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They both would intercut just fine. I think you could cut together all of these cameras and nobody would be the wiser for the most part. I've done my own tests and the 5D looks extremely similar to my AF100.
 
philip bloom said:
that's interesting. i did not know that. so what is a capable recorder? i know the Ninja won't do it or my nanoflash. Getting a kipro loaner soon. Will that?
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you'll need a dual link recorder to accomplish that, 60fps at 1080 has to come out via dual link or 3g sdi. and I'm not sure if you can do it on f3 with it's current build, might have to wait for the firmware upgrade as only one of the sdi's are activated at the moment on the dual link area. so options for the 1080p/60p would be

gemini
cinedeck
sr recorder
decklink or aja i/o card that hooks into laptop or desktop. ones that come to mind are the new thunderbolt black magic studio, aja i/o express (i think) decklink card, kona card.

what's nice too is that i believe it's going to be 60p played back at that FR, so you can slow down in post as you wish, but can still retain it with audio if you want to.
 
I've been thinking about that for the FS100.
Shoot in 1080 60p at 28Mbits and then drop it in a 60i timeline and either 60i out or maybe 30p out.

I wonder if the extra 4Mbits would add anything that can be seen on screen.
 
Hidef1080 said:
I've been thinking about that for the FS100.
Shoot in 1080 60p at 28Mbits and then drop it in a 60i timeline and either 60i out or maybe 30p out.

I wonder if the extra 4Mbits would add anything that can be seen on screen.
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I'd be concerned about that 1080p60 28Mbps mode, since it is compressing 2-2.5 as much original image information as the 24Mbps modes. So technically it's compressing each frame ~2x as much as the 1080p24@24Mbps, so if you converted it to 60i/30p (throwing away half of the image information) or slowed it down to 1080p24 it would look a lot more like 1080p24@12Mbps or 1080i@14Mbps would look...

Of course it is not that simple since 60p compared to 24/30p or 60i result in additional image information that is easier to compress because it is not likely to be very unique data, but even if that is the case, I doubt an extra 4Mbps (16% higher bitrate) is enough to effectively handle compression of 2-2.5x as much pixel data.
 
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tom.wong said:
you'll need a dual link recorder to accomplish that, 60fps at 1080 has to come out via dual link or 3g sdi. and I'm not sure if you can do it on f3 with it's current build, might have to wait for the firmware upgrade as only one of the sdi's are activated at the moment on the dual link area. so options for the 1080p/60p would be

gemini
cinedeck
sr recorder
decklink or aja i/o card that hooks into laptop or desktop. ones that come to mind are the new thunderbolt black magic studio, aja i/o express (i think) decklink card, kona card.

what's nice too is that i believe it's going to be 60p played back at that FR, so you can slow down in post as you wish, but can still retain it with audio if you want to.
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ok, so it's theoretical. It may be possible. Thought I had missed something there! What confuses me is what setting in camera would it be at the send out 1080p 60p via the dual link..
 
So Philip, did you play with the GPS in the FS100? Does it tag the videos of where you took them and is there some way to view that info? :)
 
philip bloom said:
ok, so it's theoretical. It may be possible. Thought I had missed something there! What confuses me is what setting in camera would it be at the send out 1080p 60p via the dual link..
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when and if you get the firmware upgrade, under your sdi output options, there is a dual link option that is currently greyed out. I'm sure when the firmware is installed you can turn those on, and there will probably be the option in your framrate/resolution settings. and probably locks you out of recording to sxs card in that fashion.
 
1080p 60p, uncompressed HDMI out, and new sub 5k benchmarks for low light performance and dynamic range are all FS100 selling points for me but I expect the 5D MKIII will have a similar spec. I'd prefer to stick with the DSLR form factor for it's stealth abilities and low weight but some decent mounting points would be nice. It's interesting Philip that you still prefer the 5D image, can you elaborate a bit? are you talking about the super shallow DOF, filmic look, colours? Personally I've always thought the Nikons (Sony sensors) had more filmic looking colours and grain.
 
squig said:
I'd prefer to stick with the DSLR form factor for it's stealth abilities and low weight but some decent mounting points would be nice.
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The bodies are just about the same weight with the 5D2 only being a few oz lighter if you are interested...
 
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