Upcoming 4:4:4 Recorders

M

mandrean

Active member
With the release of 4:4:4 output-capable cameras (F3 & FS100 to name two), some companies have announced upcoming 4:4:4 recorders.

The ones I know of are:

- Cinedeck Extreme (http://www.cinedeck.com/content/#/?type=serial)
- Gemini 4:4:4 (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/03/21/convergent-designs-gemini-444-recorder/)
- Cinemartin SFV (http://cinemartin.com/)

The Cinedeck is a crazy $10K I think, while the other two are about half of that. And they all need HD-SDI for 4:4:4, which means one would need an HDMI-to-HD-SDI adaptor (like from AJA or BlackMagic) with the FS100, right?

Edit: Cinedeck Extreme accepts HDMI in.

What other upcoming 4:4:4 recorders are there out there?
 
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Wouldn't work. HD-SDI can't do 4:4:4. It takes two SDI channels to carry that much data. So you'd need a new product that converts HDMI to dual-link HD-SDI or to 3G-SDI.
 
Barry_Green said:
Wouldn't work. HD-SDI can't do 4:4:4. It takes two SDI channels to carry that much data. So you'd need a new product that converts HDMI to dual-link HD-SDI or to 3G-SDI.
Click to expand...
Like this one? http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=9397


Edit: According to Wikipedia, the HD-SDI bandwidth is ~1.5 Gbit/s. In this DV info interview Convergent Design say that uncompressed data is typically around 125-150 Mbyte/s, which is 1000-1200 Mbit/s. Wouldn't one HD-SDI be enough for the FS100's 8-bit 444?
 
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SDI isn't 8-bit, it is always 10 bit. There is no space savings for 8 bit. And there is no provision for 4:4:4 in the SDI spec. It isn't just a raw data pipe like a USB cable.
 
That Gefen unit might do it. It doesn't mention 4:4:4 anywhere but if it accepts RGB input then it might work. It won't output 3GSDI at 4:4:4 though, only dual link.
 
Barry_Green said:
SDI isn't 8-bit, it is always 10 bit. There is no space savings for 8 bit. And there is no provision for 4:4:4 in the SDI spec. It isn't just a raw data pipe like a USB cable.
Click to expand...
Sure, but still. "Uncompressed data is typically around 125-150 Mbytes/s". Isn't that within the HD-SDI specs?
 
Manny moons ago Cineform was planning to make a Cineform based recorder.

3cca11ff89bb42ab124d256f9e32f58b.jpg
Somehow David decided to ditch the project. That´s a real shame, cause it would now now (several years later)
be probably selling like hot cake.

Frank
 
By the way. The Matrox MXO2 LE can capture 10-bit uncompressed RGB via HDMI.

Many people already have MacBook Pro's with Thunderbolt. When Matrox releases their updated MXO2 line with Thunderbolt I/O, the MXO2 LE could serve as a "cheap" ~$1000 4:4:4 recorder (presuming you already have the computer.)

Not a great solution for ENG, but perhaps for narrative work where only the length of the HDMI cable would limit the range of camera movement.
 
Im confused as to where Thunderbolt comes in to the picture... from what I can read its only supported by ExpressCard/34, and only the 17" has an express card slot.

Would have been nice to use it on the 15" as well.
 
legrevedotcom said:
Im confused as to where Thunderbolt comes in to the picture... from what I can read its only supported by ExpressCard/34, and only the 17" has an express card slot.

Would have been nice to use it on the 15" as well.
Click to expand...
That's exactly where Thunderbolt comes into the picture. Previously you needed an ExpressCard slot (only older 15" or newer 17") to provide fast enough I/O, but with the new Thunderbolt versions of MXO2's you get 10 Gbps I/O in all new MacBook Pro's and iMacs plus possibly in the upcoming Air as well.
 
Ah sry... I misunderstood. I thought they were already up on the site. But that's great news, makes it very interesting.
I tried to figure out what kind of storage it uses. Is it based on SSD's or an internal drive?
 
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It has no storage, its essentially an external pcie input card. So it would depend whether your laptop had a SSD or HDD.
 
ultrastudio3d.jpg


Here's one more. The Blackmagic UltraStudio 3D for $995. It has HDMI I/O and RGB 4:4:4 capturing to Prores & DPX.

It seems to be a great little thing. I'd rather get this one than an Atomos Ninja.

Some of it's features:
  • Supports capture and play back of 2D and dual stream stereoscopic 3D in DPX, ProRes, uncompressed YUV and RGB, DVCPRO HD and MJPEG files
  • Supports the following framerates in HD: 720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60, 1080PsF23.98, 1080PsF24, 1080PsF25, 1080PsF29.97, 1080PsF30, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080p50, 1080p59.94, 1080p60.
  • Supports the following framrates in 2K: 2048 x 1556PsF24 and 2048 x 1556PsF25, 2048 x 1556p23.98, 2048 x 1556p24 and 2048 x 1556p25
  • Speeds up effects in Final Cut Pro and the Adobe Mercury Engine
  • Real time RAM preview in Adobe After Effects!
  • Realtime 720p and 1080p conversion to format of choice during capture
  • PAL & NTSC
  • Genlock Input
  • Thunderbolt- I/O for all new MacBook Pros and iMacs (and most probably upcoming MacBooks, Mac Minis, Mac Pros and MacBook Airs) and some Dells/Toshibas
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/766049-REG/Blackmagic_Design_BDLKULSR3D_UltraStudio_3D.html
 
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I would prefer to have Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle but with 1080p50, 1080p59.94, 1080p60 and 4:4:4 color sampling ...

hyperdeckshuttle.jpg


.. . .and .. I just wrote a letter to them ! :) -->
---------------------
From Serge to Dan May and others: about your HyperDeck Shuttle ( to: info-usa@blackmagic-design.com , info-euro@blackmagic-design.com, info@blackmagic-design.com,
info-jp@blackmagic-design.com, etc...
-------------------
Hi, Dan!!

Since I've got new Sony NEX FS-100 camcorder, which have an option of
uncompressed 10 bits, 4:4:4 video from HDMI-out, I'm looking for recorder, which
give me a chance to use this option!
Your HyperDeck Shuttle seems the BEST,
.. exept TWO very important points:

1. HD Format Support - 720p50,
720p59.94, 720p60, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080PsF23.98, 1080PsF24,
1080PsF25, 1080PsF29.97, 1080PsF30, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97,
1080p30.

I don't see support for native Sony FS-100 format : "PS
(28Mbps) 1920x1080 60p"
... there is no way for: 1080p50, 1080p59.94, 1080p60 ...

2. Video Sampling 4:2:2 ... is there any plan in your company to
give us 10 bit uncompressed signal with 4:4:4 color sampling ??

SAME AS YOU HAVE IN YOUR Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 3D ....
but in COMPACT HyperDeck Shuttle design !!

I'm talking NOT about "money".. ( even money is something good to have : )
) - but about comfort! :)
..and I'm sure: thousands filmmakers all aroung the globe will be
happy to have this options with "The world’s smallest uncompressed video
recorder " as it says on your website :) and pay about twice of $345 it cost now ... !! :)

I see hot discussions about it in every forum all over the internet - dpreview.com, cinema5d.com,
dvxuser.com, forum.ixbt.com, www.v-dslr.ru, tomshardware.com, etc...

Sincerely
Yours,

Serge
------------------------------
LOL :grin:
 
I would be happy, if they would come up with a Hypeshuttle firmware update,so it can finally talk to the FS100.
In the moment I have nothing but an uncompressed door stopper.

Frank
 
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