to all the 30p haters
- Thread starter booggerg2
- Start date
too right
rogar-Dum(DBG):my passion is travelling, and shooting lucrative video pays for that.
You should check out those dance music vids though... awful music, terrible ideas, bad direction, 30fps, crap lighting.... but amazing women
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
gowhitesox99
Member
bumping myself!!
yommytacoe
Well-known member
I personally think 30p looks strange. it's cool if you like it though...
I suggest you stay uneducated. It'll save you from getting into circle arguments based on personal preferences...... which will most likely lead to deleted posts by the mods as they try to keep it civil in here......:beer:
gowhitesox99
Member
Zack Birlew
Veteran
Well, for filmmakers, obviously, 30p isn't even an option at this point. Maybe when digital projection kicks up into full gear the 24p/30p frame rate debate won't matter anymore, heck, someone could make a film on an old JVC HD10U if they wanted to in that case. But that isn't the case because the whole digital projection and distribution issue is still rather in its infancy.
However, for internet shows and maybe some TV spots here and there in NTSC countries, the 5D Mark II will be fine. But by not having 24p, Canon has cut out the vast majority of filmmakers and have handicapped the camera's flexibility, especially in regards to special effects work as 30p is a big leap from 24p in terms of time and effort. Also, who knows what people will like, maybe those internet shows and/or TV spots want 24p for the specific look it gives or, in the case of TV spots, being able to convert to 25p for foreign distribution.
You've also got to consider that maybe filmmakers want to experiment and use the 5D Mark II for a specific shot or purpose as B-cam. The new "X-Files" movie used an HVX200 for one of the chase scenes simply because they needed something light and easy to run with versus having to lug a big 35mm film camera. Maybe they need the 5D Mark II for a pickup or covert filming scene or in instances where they can't light up everything, whatever, but because it's not 24p, it loses that whole capability and, in a way, hurts Canon as far as advertising potential goes. The HVX200 example works again for "Cloverfield", some of the film was filmed on an HVX200 and nobody could really tell when intercut with everything else. So, a new filmmaker might think, "Hey, I can afford that camera. If it was good for them, it's good enough for me!"
Sheesh, I remember Canon's ad for the GL2. It involved somebody holding a camera while running in the running of the bulls event with a bull barreling down on them. Like that ad meant anything for filmmakers when there were ads for the DVX100 on the opposite page listing not only 60i and 30p but also 24p "for filmmakers". I don't know why Canon shoots themselves in the foot again and again, I think they must like it or something. A few years later and still, they're playing catch up with what people want.
Also, don't bash the D90 so much. Try using one and seeing what you can get out of it. It can really shine when you set it up right with the workarounds and, I find, adding some basic color correction to make it pop and with a little sharpening (about +20 in Final Cut Pro). After doing that and exporting after a single render, it's REALLY nice! Working uncompressed is the secret with it. If you convert to Prores, it'll eat away at the footage and cut back on your ability to color correct. Save all compression for export.
However, for internet shows and maybe some TV spots here and there in NTSC countries, the 5D Mark II will be fine. But by not having 24p, Canon has cut out the vast majority of filmmakers and have handicapped the camera's flexibility, especially in regards to special effects work as 30p is a big leap from 24p in terms of time and effort. Also, who knows what people will like, maybe those internet shows and/or TV spots want 24p for the specific look it gives or, in the case of TV spots, being able to convert to 25p for foreign distribution.
You've also got to consider that maybe filmmakers want to experiment and use the 5D Mark II for a specific shot or purpose as B-cam. The new "X-Files" movie used an HVX200 for one of the chase scenes simply because they needed something light and easy to run with versus having to lug a big 35mm film camera. Maybe they need the 5D Mark II for a pickup or covert filming scene or in instances where they can't light up everything, whatever, but because it's not 24p, it loses that whole capability and, in a way, hurts Canon as far as advertising potential goes. The HVX200 example works again for "Cloverfield", some of the film was filmed on an HVX200 and nobody could really tell when intercut with everything else. So, a new filmmaker might think, "Hey, I can afford that camera. If it was good for them, it's good enough for me!"
Sheesh, I remember Canon's ad for the GL2. It involved somebody holding a camera while running in the running of the bulls event with a bull barreling down on them. Like that ad meant anything for filmmakers when there were ads for the DVX100 on the opposite page listing not only 60i and 30p but also 24p "for filmmakers". I don't know why Canon shoots themselves in the foot again and again, I think they must like it or something. A few years later and still, they're playing catch up with what people want.
Also, don't bash the D90 so much. Try using one and seeing what you can get out of it. It can really shine when you set it up right with the workarounds and, I find, adding some basic color correction to make it pop and with a little sharpening (about +20 in Final Cut Pro). After doing that and exporting after a single render, it's REALLY nice! Working uncompressed is the secret with it. If you convert to Prores, it'll eat away at the footage and cut back on your ability to color correct. Save all compression for export.
Tony Robinson
Member
I firmly believe the necessity of 24p is overrated for films never destined for a film print. Progressive scan is a must. As is shallow depth of field. Nothing screams "video" more than everything in a shot being crystal clear.
ecking
Veteran
I've used the Mark II, Zak is right, it isn't production quality at all. This will all blow over in a few weeks when everyone gets to try one. It does some things well and many more thing not so well. I read you mentioning a client earlier, don't use it to shoot for clients. Outside of people doing extremely short things and personal projects with it (vimeo will love this), it isn't a serious piece of video equipment. It's proof of concept more than anything else, things can only get better from here. I wish I could post some stuff up but the for some reason the Canon Canada is still uptight about it getting out there for some reason.
Wait until the technology is put into real video cameras, unless your a photojournalist who just needs the occasional quick shot, this is not the camera to be making money with.
Perosnally, I don't work in film or tv... but in and around the stock video industry (mainly travelling around the world getting nature shots).... It is an absolutely huge, lucrative and growing sub market and the 5D and others like it will take it up a level, due to quality, shaprness, contrast, DOF but most importantly, it's size. The industry revolves around fairly simple, tripoded shots.... so the 5D seems almost perfect for taking on location. Rather than lugging a HVX, redrock and a huge tripod around.
and to add another twist... 30fps makes up around 95% of sales in stock video. I'm sure it is a sub industry that is looked down on for most pros.... but alot of people on here could probably fund a decent $6figure production by selling off top quality stock on the side. I'm pretty sure my 5D II will pay for itself 100 times over by the time the DSLR revolution (or someone like Red) produces a proper, workable model.
It's all a case of getting the right tools for the job.. as someone said before. For me, the 5D II seems to tick nearly every box.... but i'm sure for alot of people on here, it is nowhere close to what they need, yet.
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Do you consider a DOF adapter hooked up a XHA1 or EX1 to be production capable equipment? I can tell you straight up right now that the 5D2 wil be a better video camera than the aforementioned setup for wedding videography when it comes to acquiring B-Roll footage.
And yes, I consider wedding videography to have higher quality standards and "production" value than the crap you see on local cable channels or crappy commercials shot for local mom n' pop shops..
Unfortunately.
Ha. I kidd, I kidd. :beer:
Yes all the crappy indie films and their makers unite!
Ha. I kidd, I kidd. :beer:
rogar-Evil(DBG):
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ok lets put this to rest. can someone shoot something in both 24p and then in 30p with the same camera, same shutter/iris etc, and then upload them both so we can actually see the difference. Has anyone ever done this before?
of course it cant be of a wall or test chart, that would be silly.
of course it cant be of a wall or test chart, that would be silly.
smartwombat
Member
Bingo ! Many small newspapers are looking to the web, with video, as another outlet.
The BBC trust recently rejected a bid by the BBC to produce more local news on the web, and one of the considerations was (unfair?) competition against smaller local commercial news organisations.
I see the 5DmkII as a good enough still camera and good enough video camera for local newspaper news gathering in one package.
ecking
Veteran
Fine, see for yourself, like I said I've used it. This isn't a video camera, and definitely not a video camera messiah. All I'm saying is this technology will be put into video cameras...but better! It's just short ways away, wait for that, instead of forcing yourself to work within the huge constraints the 5dmk2 will place on you.
http://vimeo.com/2358413
I think they got close to a filmic look on this one. The trained eye will be able to spot the 30fps... but most people wouldn't notice at all. The lighting, dof, music and narrative make it cinematic to joe the plumber and his mates.
I think they got close to a filmic look on this one. The trained eye will be able to spot the 30fps... but most people wouldn't notice at all. The lighting, dof, music and narrative make it cinematic to joe the plumber and his mates.
You can