Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: UNHAPPY *25p PAL* users: LET'S WRITE to Panaso
Re: UNHAPPY *25p PAL* users: LET'S WRITE to Panaso
[quote author=veganway link=board=Events;num=1077903628;start=25#43 date=03/04/04 at 00:55:00]You'll still have a product that the great majority of people -with an interlaced TV- won't be able to decently see.[/quote]
Okay, for everyone who has an issue here, I have got to ask you to do something. Go rent the movie NETWORK. Made in 1976, starring Faye Dunaway and William Holden. This movie won Oscars for Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress, and Best Screenplay, and was nominated for Best Cinematography, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, Best Editing, and Best Picture.
Watch the first 20 minutes. I was absolutely amazed at how much jarring strobing, double-images, and (yes) double-lines there were, ALL OVER. I've seen strobing in movies before, even when others don't see it, but I defy anyone to watch this film and then come to any conclusion other than "The DVX100 renders motion exactly like film."
There are many scenes where there are quick pans and tracking shots in the network offices, where the camera is following Faye Dunaway or someone else. Don't look at her, watch the background, and then compare that to what you're seeing with the DVX. It will be identical. It is so strobe-y that it will give you motion sickness. It is disturbingly strobey. It is what film looks like, when you move the camera like that. It is also EXACTLY what the DVX looks like, when you move the camera like that.
Second, watch for vertical lines with high-contrast transitions. In "Network" there were plenty of scenes where they pan past doorframes, where the door or the frame are white, and there's something black next to it (or vice versa). When they do, watch for the "double lines" -- you'll see them EVERYWHERE. Everywhere there's a doorframe, or a pictureframe on the wall, any vertical element -- when they pan by, you can see it break up into interlaced double-line artifacts.
This is what film looks like, guys. Shoot film like that, and it'll look like that.
AND THIS FILM WAS NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR FOR BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY, so let's not think that Owen Roizman didn't know what he was doing. He's a five-time Oscar nominee for Best Cinematographer, for films like Tootsie and The Exorcist and The French Connection.
So. While I have been willing to entertain that perhaps the PAL camera may have a problem, I cannot any longer entertain the misguided notion that the NTSC camera looks "strobier" than film. It may sound "high and mighty" to say "learn how to move the camera like a film camera" to someone complaining about strobing, but, frankly, there is no other answer possible. The DVX acts exactly like a film camera. If you want it to look like a movie, shoot the way movies shoot.
For PAL users, all I can say is, rent Network. Watch this film. Watch the pans through the office, you'll see dozens of examples in the first 20 minutes. And then compare what you see there, to what you're seeing from the DVX. If it's noticeably different, well, perhaps there's a problem with the PAL version of the DVX. But I suspect that it'll be the same, that everyone is in for a surprise, and that the PAL DVX is doing exactly what it should (as witnessed by the universal agreement that the footage looks great on a computer screen).
Then you are not prepared to shoot film, or to shoot video that looks like film.
Over the last century, film cinematographers have had to learn that you move the camera in certain ways to avoid strobing. It is inherent in the 24fps frame rate. You absolutely must compensate, as cameraman, or your footage will strobe distractingly. There are articles written about proper camera movement technique published in the American Cinematographer's Manual.
It is the way things are. It is what film looks like. And the DVX renders motion exactly the same way film does. EXACTLY.
Re: UNHAPPY *25p PAL* users: LET'S WRITE to Panaso
[quote author=veganway link=board=Events;num=1077903628;start=25#43 date=03/04/04 at 00:55:00]You'll still have a product that the great majority of people -with an interlaced TV- won't be able to decently see.[/quote]
Okay, for everyone who has an issue here, I have got to ask you to do something. Go rent the movie NETWORK. Made in 1976, starring Faye Dunaway and William Holden. This movie won Oscars for Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress, and Best Screenplay, and was nominated for Best Cinematography, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, Best Editing, and Best Picture.
Watch the first 20 minutes. I was absolutely amazed at how much jarring strobing, double-images, and (yes) double-lines there were, ALL OVER. I've seen strobing in movies before, even when others don't see it, but I defy anyone to watch this film and then come to any conclusion other than "The DVX100 renders motion exactly like film."
There are many scenes where there are quick pans and tracking shots in the network offices, where the camera is following Faye Dunaway or someone else. Don't look at her, watch the background, and then compare that to what you're seeing with the DVX. It will be identical. It is so strobe-y that it will give you motion sickness. It is disturbingly strobey. It is what film looks like, when you move the camera like that. It is also EXACTLY what the DVX looks like, when you move the camera like that.
Second, watch for vertical lines with high-contrast transitions. In "Network" there were plenty of scenes where they pan past doorframes, where the door or the frame are white, and there's something black next to it (or vice versa). When they do, watch for the "double lines" -- you'll see them EVERYWHERE. Everywhere there's a doorframe, or a pictureframe on the wall, any vertical element -- when they pan by, you can see it break up into interlaced double-line artifacts.
This is what film looks like, guys. Shoot film like that, and it'll look like that.
AND THIS FILM WAS NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR FOR BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY, so let's not think that Owen Roizman didn't know what he was doing. He's a five-time Oscar nominee for Best Cinematographer, for films like Tootsie and The Exorcist and The French Connection.
So. While I have been willing to entertain that perhaps the PAL camera may have a problem, I cannot any longer entertain the misguided notion that the NTSC camera looks "strobier" than film. It may sound "high and mighty" to say "learn how to move the camera like a film camera" to someone complaining about strobing, but, frankly, there is no other answer possible. The DVX acts exactly like a film camera. If you want it to look like a movie, shoot the way movies shoot.
For PAL users, all I can say is, rent Network. Watch this film. Watch the pans through the office, you'll see dozens of examples in the first 20 minutes. And then compare what you see there, to what you're seeing from the DVX. If it's noticeably different, well, perhaps there's a problem with the PAL version of the DVX. But I suspect that it'll be the same, that everyone is in for a surprise, and that the PAL DVX is doing exactly what it should (as witnessed by the universal agreement that the footage looks great on a computer screen).
Then you are not prepared to shoot film, or to shoot video that looks like film.
Over the last century, film cinematographers have had to learn that you move the camera in certain ways to avoid strobing. It is inherent in the 24fps frame rate. You absolutely must compensate, as cameraman, or your footage will strobe distractingly. There are articles written about proper camera movement technique published in the American Cinematographer's Manual.
It is the way things are. It is what film looks like. And the DVX renders motion exactly the same way film does. EXACTLY.
