Typo in HVX200 menus?

M

Mark Sullivan

Member
I just received my HVX200 about an hour ago. The first thing I noticed is something in the recording mode menu that I don't understand:

1080i/30P

Is this a typo and it really means 1280x1080 progressive, or is there something fundamental about the notation that I don't understand? The other HD ices are:

1080i/60i
1080i/24P
1080i/24PA
720P/60P
720P/30P
720P/24P
720P/30PN
720P/24PN
 
Not a typo.

The formats are listed as signal/framerate

The HVX can only record 2 signal types (the HD standards) 720p and 1080i
ti can shoot in a bunch of frame rates of course.
in 1080i recording mode, it can shoot either 60i, 24p or 30p.
and thus:
1080i/60i
1080i/24p (+pa)
1080i/30p

- Mikko
 
Anything "wrong" with 1080@24?

Anything "wrong" with 1080@24?

It's just that to many of us the 1080i part of 1080i/24p implies that we'll get 24 frames but each having just one field or something.

There's a whole lot of confusion afoot as to the nature of the 1080@24 on this camera, probably in part due to the way Panasonic has described it.

What I think we all want to know for certain:
If we shoot 1080@24 we will have 24 (actually 23.9whatever) frames per second at full 1080 lines of resolution for each frame, with no pulldown causing the fields to show themselves on some frames...

I asked this question a couple times of a couple people and the answers tend to boil down to yes, it ends up just like 1080p in your NLE--but there's always the feeling of a caveat making me think there's some critical little detail just waiting to bite me in the arse. I wonder, for example, why (other then runtime) 720p native seems the most popular format... what's "wrong" with 1080i/24p?
 
You will have 24P exactly like the DVX, XL2, SDX900, SPX800, DSR450, and every other 24P camera do it. Yes there will be pulldown, that's the whole point of the "i" in the notation: 1080i/24P. 24 Progressive frames, carried within a 1080/60i interlaced wrapper.

As for "what's wrong" with 1080i/24p -- not a thing; it's the mode I use 99% of the time. It's better than 720/24pN. People talk about and use 720/24pN because it gives you 2.5 times as much recording space on the card, and it provides for variable frame rates. But 1080i/24p is noticeably higher resolution; it just takes up more space on the card.
 
Barry_Green said:
As for "what's wrong" with 1080i/24p -- not a thing; it's the mode I use 99% of the time. It's better than 720/24pN. People talk about and use 720/24pN because it gives you 2.5 times as much recording space on the card, and it provides for variable frame rates. But 1080i/24p is noticeably higher resolution; it just takes up more space on the card.
Click to expand...

Do you use the 1080i 24PA mode with advanced pulldown or 24p ?

I have had trouble in Final Cut Pro 5 getting it to recognize the Advanced Pulldown. Can you recommend a clear source of information on editing this type of footage in Final Cut Pro? There is no DVCProHD 1080 24p easy setup.

I am loving the HVX in 720pn but I really bought the camera for the ability to do 1080 24p and I am hitting a wall in getting the footage to true 24p.
 
I can't help much with FCP, I'm a complete newbie on it. In fact I shot a bunch of 1080/30P stuff tonight, and it won't let me import it at all. Don't know why or what I'm supposed to do now...

I'd been using 24PA with Raylight and editing in Vegas, but until the codec blocky issue gets worked out I'm trying on the Mac, and I really don't know what I'm doing on the mac yet! :shocked:
 
Barry , Feel free to use us as your "DVXUser.com" guide to FCP.
Just start a thread "Barry's questions about Final Cut"
We owe you.

For a better source of answers than me for sure though, I strongly recommend the San Francisco Final Cut Pro Users Group:

http://www.sfcutters.org

Its a great community that will respond to any cry for help from any level of user with dramatic speed. Newbies are treated well.

It's an email thing (Is that called a listserve), rather than a web board.

I just set my email up to send it to its own folder.

Register at
http://www.sfcutters.org/pages/list.htm

Once you go Mac that weird urging in the back of your brain to vote Republican finally gets buried. You'll feel the relief!
 
Barry_Green said:
I can't help much with FCP, I'm a complete newbie on it. In fact I shot a bunch of 1080/30P stuff tonight, and it won't let me import it at all. Don't know why or what I'm supposed to do now...

I'd been using 24PA with Raylight and editing in Vegas, but until the codec blocky issue gets worked out I'm trying on the Mac, and I really don't know what I'm doing on the mac yet! :shocked:
Click to expand...
Barry, at the recent event at the DGA Andrew Young mentioned several times that that he had to shoot 30P because FCP didn't do 24P in anything other than SD.

"Once you go Mac that weird urging in the back of your brain to vote Republican finally gets buried. You'll feel the relief!" That has nothing to do with the mac and evrything to do with "http://www.sfcutters.org"
 
Barry_Green said:
I can't help much with FCP, I'm a complete newbie on it. In fact I shot a bunch of 1080/30P stuff tonight, and it won't let me import it at all. Don't know why or what I'm supposed to do now...
Click to expand...

Barry, I shot some quick clips at 1080 30p and brought them into FCP5 just fine. I used the DVCProHD 1080 60i Easy Setup. - As I understand it, the HVX is actually shooting 29.97 frames instead of 30 which is Final Cut's editing time base in 1080 60i. Everything looked fine. The clips did not require any rendering when dropped into the timeline and motion looks normal for 30p with no interlacing edges. The thing that is confusing is the 1080 60i designation in the easy setup which actually refers to the compression scheme used. FCP won't turn your footage into 60i or anything like that. I exported a full res QuickTime movie using the PhotoJPG compression and everything looked fine.

As for the 1080 24p Advanced stuff, Nattress Standards Converter does a great job of removing pulldown and the instructions show how to set up a 24p Final Cut project. A free demo is available from http://www.nattress.com . I'm sure you are already familiar with the Gramme Nattress filters.

Rumor has it that Apple will have native support for DVCProHD 30p and 24p in FCP6 when it comes out soon.

I'm not sure why your footage wouldn't import. I plugged in my HVX and downoaded directly into Final Cut with no problems. Where you pulling from the external FW drive that you offload your P2 cards to?
 
ChuckS said:
Barry, at the recent event at the DGA Andrew Young mentioned several times that that he had to shoot 30P because FCP didn't do 24P in anything other than SD.
Click to expand...
But that was for the JVC. The JVC's 24P isn't supported in FCP or in Avid yet.

HVX 720/24p works just fine in FCP.
 
kevinM said:
I'm not sure why your footage wouldn't import. I plugged in my HVX and downoaded directly into Final Cut with no problems. Where you pulling from the external FW drive that you offload your P2 cards to?
Click to expand...
I tried importing directly from the camera, and it would bring in the 1080/60i stuff or standard-def stuff, but then it would stop and whine about "some clips must be corrupt or something." Which they're not, they work fine.

I also tried importing off the hard disk, and that didn't work either. Quite annoying! :)

It is my understanding that I'm running 5.0.4, but when I went in the "about" box, it says 5.0. I tried downloading the 5.0.4 updater anyway, but it wouldn't run, it said that I was running the wrong version and that it was only for 5.0.3 or earlier (which further makes me think I'm running 5.0.4).
 
Barry - How are you getting your updates?

If you just got your new Mac, you should go to System Preferences, Software updates and see what updates are available. This will check ALL Apple software running on your machine including Final Cut. This is how you should always do your updates rather than downloading from the Apple site manually.

I bought a G5 Quad two weeks ago and set up everything and there were several updates that needed to be done right out of the box.

Let me know how it goes.
 
kevinM said:
you should go to System Preferences, Software updates and see what updates are available. This will check ALL Apple software running on your machine including Final Cut. This is how you should always do your updates rather than downloading from the Apple site manually.
Click to expand...


I agree with Kevin that it's the best way to find out what your system needs - but I would recommend using the online updater only to see what updates your system might be missing....make note of them, and then download them manually from Apple's site. That way you can save them all individually.

Then again I'm paranoid - probably from my PC days - but I prefer to have all my updates backed up on disk. That way if I have some sort of crash, and need to reinstall a piece of software I can update it without having to get back online.
I haven't needed them at all yet - but I like knowing I've got them all.

Just a thought.
 
Barry_Green said:
Currently the Mac's not on the Internet. Looks like that's a must... Thanks Kevin!
Click to expand...

Absolutely - get it online.
It's the easiest way to keep up with updates - and who knows, you may wind up surfing on it. I know I like not having to worry about viruses and spyware.
:thumbsup:
 
Luis Caffesse said:
I agree with Kevin that it's the best way to find out what your system needs - but I would recommend using the online updater only to see what updates your system might be missing....make note of them, and then download them manually from Apple's site. That way you can save them all individually.

Then again I'm paranoid - probably from my PC days - but I prefer to have all my updates backed up on disk. That way if I have some sort of crash, and need to reinstall a piece of software I can update it without having to get back online.
I haven't needed them at all yet - but I like knowing I've got them all.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. The software updater installs various components of your software in a specific order. For example, if QuickTime isnt up to date, the newest Final Cut Pro wont work properly. Let the software updater do the work. The updates will always be online - all the way back to early OS versions. You don't need to try to keep track of them yourself.
 
Download and keep

Download and keep

Luis Caffesse said:
I would recommend using the online updater only to see what updates your system might be missing....make note of them, and then download them manually from Apple's site. That way you can save them all individually.
Click to expand...

Good idea, but no need for note-taking; Software Update has (buried in a menu at the top of the screen instead of in the Software Update dialog box where it belongs) options to download the packages only, or download and install them (keeping the packages around). You can then copy them wherever you want.

I think most people have no idea this feature exists.

Gavin
 
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