Trying to Decide on a New Recorder

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boorye

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So I'm picking up a new audio mixing/recording combination. I'm thinking about the Sound Devices 302, but can't decide on a recorder. Do any of you have experience with the Zoom H5 vs the Tascam DR-100 MKii? Are the pre-amps comparable to Roland R-26 in clean sound? How do you feel about their respective pre-amps, features, and real-world usability? Which sounds better with a MKH-416 and G3 mixed on the SD 302? I've tried googling comparisons between the two but couldn't find any.
 
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There's no difference in sound anymore. All the digital recorders in this class and above all exceed the thresholds of human hearing and all have decent pre-amps that display almost no discernible differences at all.

If you are using that Sound Devices 302 in front of it then the recorder's pre-amps don't even matter because you will be bypassing them and going into the LINE inputs instead.

The place where these recorders differ in sound is their own on-board microphones. Which you'll probably not ever be using if you're using your own mics into the 302.
In this regard I strongly prefer the Tascam's. I have used a lot of different Zoom models and they all sound very processed - very slick and polished - but affected. Less realistic and true to life.
 
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boorye said:
Do any of you have experience with the Zoom H5 vs the Tascam DR-100 MKii? Are the pre-amps comparable to Roland R-26 in clean sound? How do you feel about their respective pre-amps, features, and real-world usability? Which sounds better with a MKH-416 and G3 mixed on the SD 302?
Click to expand...

I've actually got a DR-100mkII and it sounds fine. I wouldn't want to use it much to record dialog on set however because of its ackward layout -- same with all the other "shavers".

What I'd be looking at today on this level would be the Tascam DR-70D or DR-60DmkII. Good recorders and good micpres, and unless you actually need a mixer to do real time mixes with, you can drop the SD 302 out of the equation and save quit a bit of money.

Not Hollywood level, no. But surprisingly good, easily able to keep up with most of us who don't have the precision boom pole skills, and lav. mounting skills that demand better. At least for me.

If on the other hand you really want something to work at the level of the SD 302, I'd be looking at that new Zoom H8. It's getting really good reviews, and at the price of a used SD 302 you get 8 excellent micpres and a recorder to go with it. What's not to like? The weakness is perhaps that ability to do real time mixes on it, but with 8 channels that's not really necessary any more.
 
If you're going with a 302, why trip up your workflow with a handheld recorder? Those are harder to stash in a bag while still keeping access to controls and view of the meters. I highly recommend that you look to a bag-friendly recorder. The Tascam DR-680mkII (or a used original DR-680), or Tascam DR-70 . If multitrack is more than you need (since your mixer is only 2-out), the Fostex FR-2LE is a solid performer when paired with a Sound Devices mixer in front. You can still buy new, or find a good deal used. Same with the Tascam HD-P2 if time code is a need.
 
I agree with most everything said above with exceptions:

Build quality was unmentioned as a factor with any inexpensive piece of sound gear. I started with both the Tascam dr100 and 680. Still own them both and for what they cost, deliver good value, but no where near SD quality. If I had the budget for a 302 and a dr100, and needed only two mixed channels, id just buy the 680 and forget the mixer. Even though the 680 has more channels, mixing more than two is problematic. The 680 preamps are a definite step up from the dr100 and the 680 is bag friendly for on set use. You will want to plan for additional power for a 680 as it eats AA cells at an alarming rate.
 
I have the new 680mkii which is a nice upgrade from the previous version. I just did a two day job where I ran two phantom powered Audix mics and one Sennheiser wireless feed for much of the day. On a set of 8 Eneloop Pro batteries, I got about 5 hours. There was still one bar so I probably could have gotten more but I didn't want to take any chances so plugged in an external 12v USB battery. That easily got me through the rest of the day. Slightly better preamps as well, which widens the gap between the dr100 and Zoom recorders. I really like the recorder and haven't felt a need to put my Mixpre-D in front of it.
 
I have a Tascam DR-70D that i use for small stuff and it works great just plugging directly into...and I've been putting in a new K-Tek prototype bag that's coming out very soon. I usually just put my shotgun mic in channel one, and use the rest for wireless. Works well for that level of audio. If I need to step it up then I can put a nicer mixer in front of it, but for more than two channels, you need something with direct outs. The 302 only gives you a left and right output. At that point, I'd seriously look at something like a 633 or Zaxcom Maxx.
 
Thanks for the input! I am renting or borrowing many of the recorders mentioned above (mainly 302, Zoom F8, as well as a variety of other Tascams). The new preamps on the zoom F8 sound good to my ears, at least through sample clips and video reviews. They have less of the processed, robotic sound, for a lack of a better description. I'm going to see how some of these handle my LDC mics, but I'm not expecting much given the budget I'm working with.
 
"If you are using that Sound Devices 302 in front of it then the recorder's pre-amps don't even matter because you will be bypassing them and going into the LINE inputs instead"
Not exactly.. in line level mode, most budget recorders just attenuate line down to mic level and it's run run though the budget recorders POS preamp anyway. (though a good mic pre would usually be quieter and better sounding than going direct). AFAIK, the only 'budget' recorder that bypasses the mic preamps is the Tascam 680. I assume the newer mkII is the same. The 680 has awful battery economy though (mkII is a little better), and I would recommend an external battery system in either case.
If I were feeding a 'real' camera for interviews and such, a 302 or MixPre would be the first choice.
 
Just so you know, you can't mix on the F8. The knobs on the front are not faders, they are just trims. For mixing you need to use a tablet that runs an app that Zoom made to work with the F8. This may or may not be an issue for you, but just be aware of this. If you are using it in a bag there is a new product out there that allows you to mount a tablet in a bag called the TM1 from Sound Guys Solutions. I have heard from other people that I really respect that the mic pre's are good. The build quality seemed very good compared to other Zoom products.
 
I also heard that the F8 limiters are purely digital so post preamp stage. That almost seems pointless to have at that point. The outputs are also not true line level.
 
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