true stereo mic for T2i

A

archp2011

New member
Hello,

Can anyone recommend a good low-priced true video mic for the T2i. I know the Rode Videmic Pro is true video but costs $300. I understand the cheaper Rode Videomics are not really stereo and the youtube and vimeo reviews generally show that. I was impressed by a video demonstrating the Olympus 145037 ME-51S Stereo Microphone which only costs around $60.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evRVMz39DI8 Opinions?
 
my opinion is that you get what you pay for.

and i don't know if i would go as far as to say that the rode videomic pro is a "true video mic".
 
archp2011 said:
Can anyone recommend a good low-priced true video mic for the T2i.
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I'm curious what you believe constitutes a "true video mic".

archp2011 said:
I know the Rode Videmic Pro is true video but costs $300.
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Again, not sure what you mean by "true video" for a microphone. The VideoMic Pro is actually around $230.

archp2011 said:
I understand the cheaper Rode Videomics are not really stereo and the youtube and vimeo reviews generally show that.
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Well, there are three VideoMics from RODE. One is the Stereo VideoMic, which is "really" stereo (rather, two mics in one chassis, with a two-channel output). The other two are the VideoMic and the VideoMic Pro. Both of those are single-channel mics, but are wired to send the one signal out to both record channels of the camera.

Exactly what use are you envisioning for this mic? Dialog is, as a general rule, recorded and mixed in mono. Stereo is great for capturing stereo ambient sound beds, but not for dialog.

Also, keeping the mic on-camera, or close to the camera, is not the best placement. The mic needs to be removed from the camera and located as close to the sound source as possible.

archp2011 said:
I was impressed by a video demonstrating the Olympus 145037 ME-51S Stereo Microphone which only costs around $60.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evRVMz39DI8 Opinions?
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Ah, the wonders of the Interwebz... where anyone with a camera and a computer can make a "qualified" demo/review of just about anything. Opinion? In my opinion, that video was useless. It just shows that a cheap mic sounds cheap, and that it was in the hands of some one who doesn't know how to use the mic properly. If that was supposed to be a sales pitch for the Olympus, it failed miserably.

Of course, recording in-camera to the T2i isn't the best benchmark for audio quality. Judging by the crunched audio and the terrible noise floor in that video, I'd also say that he hasn't defeated the AGC in the T2i (which requires a hack, either hardware or firmware).
 
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I think the OP needs to refine to themselves what a true video mic means. I don't consider any of these "true". They all are cheap run and gun mics, IMHO. But r they ok for that kind of sound, sure. Rode makes good cheap mics. So do others, like audio technic a.
 
true stereo mic for T2i

Thanks for the interesting reply. Sorry, I did this late last night (blurry-eyed). I meant to say true "Stereo," not true "video." I just want my playback to have that full sound that comes when the sound from the left speaker is not exactly the same as the sound from the right, similar to stereo music or movies. I looked at a few other reviews of the Olympus last night and I note that a good windscreen would be vital for this one. I am very much a newbie and amateur to this area, but I know what it's like to have every outdoor video I take sounding like it's taken in a hurricane. I live in a province where some areas are supposed to have the highest average wind velocity in the world (so I've heard). I realize that, generally we get what we pay for, but some purchases are more of a total waste than others. I just want to pay the least I need to eliminate camera focusing and handling sounds and give me that full stereo reproduction in my home theater setup.
 
If you're just trying to shoot your kid running around on the beach or something, disregard this, but otherwise, read on:

First off, if you're shooting somewhere with a lot of wind a simple windscreen or even a softie isn't going to cut it. A full blimp / zeppelin system is essential, which is at best impractical and really just plain stupid to try on-camera. The same goes for your camera noise - get the mic off-camera and closer to what you're trying to capture.

The full sound you get from any well-done film isn't from a stereo mic slapped on the camera, it's built up of many many layers, all recorded at different times and brought together in post to create the final sound.
 
JordanBlock said:
If you're just trying to shoot your kid running around on the beach or something, disregard this, but otherwise, read on:

First off, if you're shooting somewhere with a lot of wind a simple windscreen or even a softie isn't going to cut it. A full blimp / zeppelin system is essential, which is at best impractical and really just plain stupid to try on-camera. The same goes for your camera noise - get the mic off-camera and closer to what you're trying to capture.

The full sound you get from any well-done film isn't from a stereo mic slapped on the camera, it's built up of many many layers, all recorded at different times and brought together in post to create the final sound.
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Thanks for another interesting reply. Truthfully, shooting the kids (grandkids) playing hockey or engaging in another sport or activity is most of what I have been doing lately. That having been said, there are many around who simply can't afford having true professionals take a video of their event and I have done a few weddings (35mm still) in the past. I understand what you mean about layers of audio and video in a movie editor and I can imagine the level of sophistication in commercial video production. I'm guessing that you're suggesting turning off the audio on the T2i and adding some audio later, or using a portable recording unit for speech.
 
My question to you would be, "Why do you need it to be stereo?" Is there an advantage to hearing your kids voice more in one speaker if they are standing off to one side of the mic? Even with home movies, hearing the words your family says is most important I would think, and a mono mic is better for that. With stereo, voices are less focused, and ambient noise from every direction is enhanced.

Here's a funny video I shot with a T2i, and the VideoMic Pro in the shoe mount, going directly into the camera. The 20db boost on the mic allowed me to turn down the camera audio (thanks to Magic Lantern) and have very little noise. I do not think there would be any benifit with a stereo mic. If my niece was off to one side, and her voice comes out of one speaker more. Tgat actually gets tiring to listen to, and you hear less of what they are saying...


I suggest, even for home movies, a mono mic. And with the 20db boost - the VideoMic PRO eliminates the need to have a preamp.
 
Chadfish said:
My question to you would be, "Why do you need it to be stereo?" Is there an advantage to hearing your kids voice more in one speaker if they are standing off to one side of the mic? Even with home movies, hearing the words your family says is most important I would think, and a mono mic is better for that. With stereo, voices are less focused, and ambient noise from every direction is enhanced.

Here's a funny video I shot with a T2i, and the VideoMic Pro in the shoe mount, going directly into the camera. The 20db boost on the mic allowed me to turn down the camera audio (thanks to Magic Lantern) and have very little noise. I do not think there would be any benifit with a stereo mic. If my niece was off to one side, and her voice comes out of one speaker more. Tgat actually gets tiring to listen to, and you hear less of what they are saying...


I suggest, even for home movies, a mono mic. And with the 20db boost - the VideoMic PRO eliminates the need to have a preamp.
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Yes, I can see that in some cases one might prefer mono to stereo, especially when one is thinking of eliminating distracting sounds to one side or the other. I guess one reason why I was tending towards looking for a stereo mic is that the T2i has a stereo input. Also, I had been thinking of recording some live music performers. Thanks for that awesome video. Sounds like her uncle is a video director! Children are little mirrors reflecting what they see and hear, sometimes to our embarrassment. Certainly the audio quality is superb. That one is the $230 one, right? What about the Rode Videomic that typically sells for around $130?
 
Firstly, with all these mono mics, they send the mono signal into both channels of the T2i, so it comes out as stereo as far as being on both channels. For recording music, the only way to use a stereo mic is on a mic stand. Otherwise ehen you turn the camera, the whole stereo field changes on the recording, which is annoying to listen to. So for a concert you would need to have your stereo mic on a boom stand pointing at the band. If you want a mic on the camera, and you are wondering around, a mono mic is still better because the only thing that will change is the volume level depending on how close/far you are. Remember most music was recorded in mono until the 70s, and it sounded pretty good. Listen to the original beatles recordings and you'll hear. Of course if you were recording a live music show and wanted quality audio, a mic on a camera, especially a dslr, is not the way to go anyway. You would have at least a 4 track recorder getting a stereo board feed from the PA, and a stereo mic for ambiance. So even with a stereo mic on your T2I, you are not going to get a musical sound that's very nice. Chances are you'll clip the input of the camera - especially when people clap. So with the situation you describe I still think you'll get a better sound with a mono mic.

The VideoMic is a great mic, but the advantage the "pro" version has is the size (about 1/3rd of the VM) and the 20db boost. It's that boost that allows you to turn down the camera audio and have less hiss. And the size is a big deal if you're walking around hand held.

One more thing, you really need Magic Lantern if you plan on recording audio with yout T2i. Without it you have no control of your audio levels. And AGC (auto gain compensation) is on all the time, pumping up the volume when nobody talks and bringing up the hiss with it.

It doesn't matter to me what you do really. I'm just trying to point you in the direction of the simplest way for you to get decent audio into your T2i. If you have anything serious to record it should be done with none of these consumer mics, and not going into a DSLR. And without the boost of the VMP mic, you'll need a preamp like a juicedlink of some sort to boost those mics (excet the VMP). That's why I am all for the VMP these days as far as simple mic-to-DSLR solutions. You're not going to get away with one mic that covers everything. You will have to buy more mics as time goes by. So I'm suggesting a mic that will get you the best results, the simplest way, in the most situations for your particular camera.

Happy shopping!
 
Chadfish said:
Firstly, with all these mono mics, they send the mono signal into both channels of the T2i, so it comes out as stereo as far as being on both channels.
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We really need to be careful when throwing around the word "stereo". Sending a mono signal to two channels isn't stereo, it's split mono. Throwing up two mics to record something isn't necessarily stereo, but more likely be classified as dual mono or multi-channel. Actually recording in stereo requires mic placement techniques such as XY or MS, or the use of stereo microphones..and by stereo microphones I mean microphones that have more than one mic element and have an internal stereo setup in one housing, not a mono mic that uses a stereo mini jack that splits the signal.


Dialogue is almost NEVER recorded in stereo for tv and film. The only place I know of that uses a stereo mic for production sound is in another country, and they use the Neumann RSM 191. This technique is HELL for localization (which I've done a fair amount of), because they use the stereo mics to record everything, and don't do any foley in post, so there is no real M&E track. Everything has to be re-done, which is a pain in the rear when there is no budget for a real foley artist.
 
davefisk said:
We really need to be careful when throwing around the word "stereo". Sending a mono signal to two channels isn't stereo, it's split mono. Throwing up two mics to record something isn't necessarily stereo, but more likely be classified as dual mono or multi-channel. Actually recording in stereo requires mic placement techniques such as XY or MS, or the use of stereo microphones..and by stereo microphones I mean microphones that have more than one mic element and have an internal stereo setup in one housing, not a mono mic that uses a stereo mini jack that splits the signal.


Dialogue is almost NEVER recorded in stereo for tv and film. The only place I know of that uses a stereo mic for production sound is in another country, and they use the Neumann RSM 191. This technique is HELL for localization (which I've done a fair amount of), because they use the stereo mics to record everything, and don't do any foley in post, so there is no real M&E track. Everything has to be re-done, which is a pain in the rear when there is no budget for a real foley artist.
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Thanks again for the reply. Although there was wind noise in the video of the Olympus 145037 ME-51S Stereo Microphone which only costs around $60.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evRVMz39DI8 I did detect a sense of space in the sound, compared with the built-in mic. It is described on B&H as a Stereo Electret Condenser Microphone, Uni-directional x 2, with a 3.5 mm stereo jack. Is this technology true stereo? I would have to Google foley and M&E because I don't know what they are. No point, though, because you've made it clear that this is very expensive commercial work. Being that, to get rid of camera sounds I will need to put the mic on the end of a cable running across the floor or the ground which is another pain in the rear. I'm wondering how bad or frequent interference would be on the ATR-288W. http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wls_systems/a81baa831864d38b/index.html. It doesn't sound too bad in this review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MbnuKlkWnE and could also be used hooked up to a PA system for talking while walking around inside a building.
 
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davefisk said:
Dialogue is almost NEVER recorded in stereo for tv and film. The only place I know of that uses a stereo mic for production sound is in another country, and they use the Neumann RSM 191. This technique is HELL for localization (which I've done a fair amount of), because they use the stereo mics to record everything, and don't do any foley in post, so there is no real M&E track. Everything has to be re-done, which is a pain in the rear when there is no budget for a real foley artist.
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Dave, Dave, Dave. You know better, it"s Foley not foley. I know you know but the OP doesn't. Foley is always capitalized because it's a proper name.
 
archp2011,

I think a topic that was discussed awhile back is creeping in here. And that is you are getting advice based on peoples experience but not necessarily tailored to what YOU want or need.

There are the "right" ways to do things and they often involve a bunch of $$$. But IF you are not doing commercial work (ie films with budgets, ads, event videography, ENG etc) then a lot of the "right" ways to do things don't nec. apply.

If you don't know what Foley is or an M&E then you probably haven't worked in films with a budget (at least in post) and judging by questions I suspect not in the others either.

So what would help is for you to explain what you want to do and what level you want to end up at. Home movies for instance pretty much anything goes. If your doing it for fun, do the fun part and don't sweat the details too much.

Once your doing it seriously (as in you want to make a living at it) things get a lot more complicated. Even when you are a budding filmmaker (ie I want to work in film but I'm in highschool and am learning about the camera right now) I would say focus on what you want to do and try to get that to the highest level you can and blow off a lot of the rest. Once you are looking at some serious festival shots etc then you do have to start treating your films like they had a budget. But if nothing is really at stake I would say have fun and explore. You are not going to produce a Hollywood sound track, know it accept it and know that it's fine for where you are.

The dirty truth that folks selling you FCP etc don't mention is that it takes a LOT of people with a boatload of skills to pull of a well done feature. It's a HUGE amount of work and it takes a long time. And a lot of the work is hard and not terribly fun.

That said don't record your dialog in stereo if you have a choice. Nothing but FX are recorded in stereo. Even music as a rule is not recorded in stereo. The stereo (or soround) is constructed not "captured".
 
Noiz2 said:
Dave, Dave, Dave. You know better, it"s Foley not foley. I know you know but the OP doesn't. Foley is always capitalized because it's a proper name.
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Mea Culpa. I've seen it in lower case so much over the years I have adopted the improper usage.
 
I have been thinking of the possibility of doing some professional work in the future, but, knowing the stress involved from my prior efforts, and the fact that I have had heart surgery, it's not likely to happen. I am coming to the conclusion that the Rode Videomic which can typically be won on eBay for around $130 and works out of the box is probably the only way to go. This could be mounted on a stand at the end of a cable. Thanks to everyone for the comments.
 
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