True cost of Ki Pro Mini

M

Mike@AF

Veteran
I reserved an AF100 the other day and have started putting together a list of items I will need to buy for my new camera package. This included a Ki Pro Mini, or at least I was hoping it would. Then I quickly realized this $2000 recording solution is likely going to cost me $4000 or more. Here's what I figured out:

Ki Pro Mini = $2000
Mounting plate x2 (1 for battery, 1 for mounting to rails mount) $75 each=$150
Rail mounting solution = estimate $100-200 (and it might be more, but I don't know what will be needed)
Batteries (figure maybe $200 each that last for 4 hours and I'd want 12 hours) = $600
Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB CF UDMA cards (want 3 to download 1 with Shotput Pro, record to 1, and have 1 in waiting, at $525 each) = $1575

Total estimate so far = $4325, almost the same price of the AF100 itself. And I haven't even added a charger for the batteries.

Am I missing something? Granted, I can go with 16GB or 32GB CF cards, and potentially only 2, but the way I see it we're still talking at least $3000-$3500.
 
Hi Mike,

I understand what you are saying and it is sort of relative to the decisions we made when we said the camera has to be AVCHD. It would make the camera about $10,000 to make it 10 bit 4:2:2. You could buy the camera, and use the AVCCAM, be happy. Then for that shoot or part you feel really needs the 10 bit, you rent one of these babies.

Just a thought,

Jan
 
Jan, in terms of bit rate, 8 bit and 10 bit, how much of an improvement is the AF100 codec over something like the 7D?
 
The difference between the AVCCAM implementation and the 7D implementation is actually dramatically different. The AVCCAM implementation has lots of B frames and the 7D would be more of a playback codec in that they rely more on the I and P frames. AVCCAM has Is, B,s and Ps.

Does that help?

jan
 
Jan can you please tell me how many units are shipping, or if you don't want to say (or don't know) the exact amount, what is the likelihood of someone who did NOT pre-order to get this camera by the end of the year? Will this be something that is impossible to obtain until summer of 2011? Or will I be able to stroll into B&H late december or early january and purchase an AF100 with no problem?
 
Thanks for pointing this out. I wouldn't need that many batteries, but I didn't realized that quality 64 GB CF cards were still commanding such high prices. Using the AJA Data Rate Calculator, I see that ProRes (non-HQ) at 1080/30p gives less than an hour of record time per 64 GB card.
 
Step One:

Forget about that Sandisk Crap. They have as many, if not more errors in field recording compared to my favorite "Brand X" TRANSCEND. Skip the 64gb cards for now, and go with 32's. Get 6 of them if you are worried. $170/each...not too shabby:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/666605-REG/Transcend_TS32GCF600_Compact_Flash_600x_32GB.html

Step two:
Start researching your power methods for this setup. I'm sure there will be either an anton bauer or V-Lock plate that adapts to the AF100. Look at this anton bauer ElipZ system:
http://www.wwbroadcast.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AntonBauer_P150-ADP-ELPZ&Click=112302

Step Three:
Mounting - i'm sure you could get the element technica speedy clamp system to work with the KI-Mini. Might seem like overkill, but its good stuff for the money
http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/view.php?p=44
 
Dan_Kanes said:
Step One:

Forget about that Sandisk Crap. They have as many, if not more errors in field recording compared to my favorite "Brand X" TRANSCEND. Skip the 64gb cards for now, and go with 32's. Get 6 of them if you are worried. $170/each...not too shabby:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/666605-REG/Transcend_TS32GCF600_Compact_Flash_600x_32GB.html

Step two:
Start researching your power methods for this setup. I'm sure there will be either an anton bauer or V-Lock plate that adapts to the AF100. Look at this anton bauer ElipZ system:
http://www.wwbroadcast.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AntonBauer_P150-ADP-ELPZ&Click=112302

Step Three:
Mounting - i'm sure you could get the element technica speedy clamp system to work with the KI-Mini. Might seem like overkill, but its good stuff for the money
http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/view.php?p=44
Click to expand...

There's no perfect card out there. I prefer Sandisk because I've never had a problem with them and have heard fewer issues with them than any others. Regardless, it still puts the Ki Pro Mini over $3000.

As far as the battery and mounting solution goes, I was referring to batteries to power the Ki Pro Mini and a rails mount for the Ki Pro Mini, not the AF100. Your links are for a battery solution for the HMC150 (or AF100 possibly).
 
I don't know if there is one. It's just hard to stomach the cost of the 10-bit 4:2:2 recording capability being almost as much as the camera itself. Granted, if I add my lens package to the camera price, it's not even close anymore, but still... My main point is that anyone looking at the Ki Pro Mini isn't looking at just $2000. It's more like $3000-$5000, depending on the necessary add-ons. I now have to think if it's really worth getting the Ki Pro Mini. Recording to SD cards in camera may have to be good enough.
 
Mike@AF said:
I don't know if there is one. It's just hard to stomach the cost of the 10-bit 4:2:2 recording capability being almost as much as the camera itself. Granted, if I add my lens package to the camera price, it's not even close anymore, but still... My main point is that anyone looking at the Ki Pro Mini isn't looking at just $2000. It's more like $3000-$5000, depending on the necessary add-ons. I now have to think if it's really worth getting the Ki Pro Mini. Recording to SD cards in camera may have to be good enough.
Click to expand...

what do you mean by 10bit recording, even with ki pro the AF100 still outputs only 8bit maximum. Am I missing something here?
 
damn, this is something that a redrock or zacuto needs to step up and handle.
I was not aware that the whole mess would add 5k to the price tag, that is a significant jump up in price for something that really should be implemented in camera.
 
brian hanson said:
damn, this is something that a redrock or zacuto needs to step up and handle.
I was not aware that the whole mess would add 5k to the price tag, that is a significant jump up in price for something that really should be implemented in camera.
Click to expand...
What do you expect from a camera that costs $5,000? Come on.
 
brian hanson said:
damn, this is something that a redrock or zacuto needs to step up and handle.
I was not aware that the whole mess would add 5k to the price tag, that is a significant jump up in price for something that really should be implemented in camera.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "should be"? The next UP in panasonic's line up that is capable of doing 10bit and 4:2:2 is the HPX300 to my knowledge and that costs around $9000. So what is it that exactly "SHOULD" be in a camera that costs 4975$ .....?
 
and by the way I should mention AF100 footage so far looks much better to me than HPX300 footage and it's twice the price
 
brian hanson said:
damn, this is something that a redrock or zacuto needs to step up and handle.
I was not aware that the whole mess would add 5k to the price tag, that is a significant jump up in price for something that really should be implemented in camera.
Click to expand...

Well, then maybe you should wait for some raw files from the FINISHED camera are posted, evaluate them in your edit system using your workflow, and see what the camera's codec looks like first before we all start freaking out about the price of a KiPro Mini.

Talk about FUD.
 
Mike@AF said:
ProRes HQ is 10-bit 4:2:2. That is what the Ki Pro Mini records in.
Click to expand...

Hey Mike, are you (and Jan earlier) suggesting that since the KPM writes 10bit - we actually GET 10 bit?

If so I gotta get me some of that PRORES stuff ;- /

Caleb Crosby
DP
USA
 
I didn't want to start a debate about whether or not the AF100 should include 10-bit 4:2:2 recording. There's other threads for that. I'm not surprised the AF100 doesn't, and I think what I've seen from the AF100 so far looks amazing. The point of my post was that the Ki Pro Mini isn't really a $2000 solution. It's much more than that if you want to have it near the camera and portable for shooting with.

I made a short with the unhacked GH1 for BetrayalFest that got into a couple festivals. I saw it projected on a theater screen at the Laemmle Sunset 5 in West Hollywood in July. I was worried it wasn't going to hold up, especially with my not-so-great DP work on that film and excessive grading, but it actually held up and looked great. I was amazed. Jack Daniel Stanley's short also screened at that festival, was also shot with the GH1 (unhacked afaik), and I thought it looked amazing as well. The AF100 will only be better. I have no doubt the AF100 will allow films to be shot that will look amazing projected in a theater. So my thought for myself is to not get the Ki Pro Mini and use the native SD card recording in the AF100 until I know I need a Ki Pro Mini, which I suspect won't ever be necessary for myself.

I can't wait to get my AF100....
 
plasticam said:
Hey Mike, are you (and Jan earlier) suggesting that since the KPM writes 10bit - we actually GET 10 bit?

If so I gotta get me some of that PRORES stuff ;- /

Caleb Crosby
DP
USA
Click to expand...

I doubt it would be as good as internal 10-bit recording (if it existed), but it should give you some of the benefits of 10-bit and 4:2:2 in the post workflow going from edit to grading to visual fx and so on. I would expect it to degrade less quickly through the process than keeping it at 8-bit. I'm no expert with this stuff, so someone correct me if I am completely wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top