F5: Tripod Head?

anatusa

anatusa

Veteran
Hello

i wonder what tripod head would u recommend? I had Sachtler fsb8, but sold it, as there were just no way to balance the cam on it, it always bounced back or down. i tried everything, watched educational clips as well, but i really never was able to make it perfect (weight limits never was broken). movements were smooth..... cant say anything bad about it.
there was 1 more little but very annoying problem as well - it was hard to set the leveling bubble in the middle, i was kind of running around to catch it.... sound stupid i know , but very annoying. on my old libec head it takes 1-2 seconds, but there i was spending like 15...a little bit there, a little bit there, ups too much, a little bit back....

i dont use huge cinema zoom lenses....

i need 1 for 75mm and 1 for 100mm . about price, well hard to say... something reasonable with out breaking the bank..
 
I lucked out a few years ago and gout a Sachtler "Caddy" head for a steal at $1K. They are identical to Sachtler 18's but named differently and sold cheaper to compete with another brand back when. If you can find one they can be a real bargain. I just saw one on ebay that didn't sell a few weeks ago with legs for $1500- ridiculously good price. Maybe you could find that seller.
 
+1 on the Caddy. I shoot with an O'Connor 30D, but I also have a Sachtler Caddy that I use with my b-camera and it's proven to be a really good tripod. I got it on ebay about 15 years ago for $4K and it was worth ever cent, so if you you can find one round $1500 that is a great deal! A tripod is no place to skimp, because if you buy the right one, it is something you will have for years and years as cameras come and go. You really need to have a head with weight specifictions that are at least 2x higher than what you actually expect to put on it.
 
I have a Miller Air for lightweight run and gun setups and it's more than enough unless you're using large cine glass and mattebox etc.

For heavier setups I have my Manfrotto 509HD which does the job but if I was buying new I probably wouldn't go for it.
 
I second what Doug says in regards to buying a head that supports more than your intended payload. Don't skimp on your tripod set-up. It will make shooting miserable. I currently have three Vinten 100's(on Sachtler Speedlock legs) and an old 10LF in the closet. I'd love an O'connor, but the 1030D payload capacity is too small, the 1030DS doesn't tilt +/- 90 and the next step, a 2065, is too big and heavy for the majority of my shooting at 22+ lbs. I did speak with a rep at NAB last year and he spent a little time with me and took some notes when I told him what I what I'd like to see in a good ENG/EFP head. It seems I'm not the only one that likes the 1030, but wants it with the 40+ lb payload AND +/- 90 tilt.
 
And I second what Run&Gun says. I'd also love to have something beefier than the 1030D but the 2065 is too big and heavy for me to use for the majority of my shooting. Hopefully O'Connor will listen to our wishes and some up with a solution.
 
anatusa said:
Hello

i wonder what tripod head would u recommend? I had Sachtler fsb8, but sold it, as there were just no way to balance the cam on it, it always bounced back or down. i tried everything, watched educational clips as well, but i really never was able to make it perfect (weight limits never was broken). movements were smooth..... cant say anything bad about it.
there was 1 more little but very annoying problem as well - it was hard to set the leveling bubble in the middle, i was kind of running around to catch it.... sound stupid i know , but very annoying. on my old libec head it takes 1-2 seconds, but there i was spending like 15...a little bit there, a little bit there, ups too much, a little bit back....

i dont use huge cinema zoom lenses....

i need 1 for 75mm and 1 for 100mm . about price, well hard to say... something reasonable with out breaking the bank..
Click to expand...

I'd have to assume there was something wrong with your head. I've had the FSB-8 for years and it's been fantastic the entire time; used it with EX-1, AF100, F3, F5 and was always able to get perfect counter-balance with the speed dial. Not that it is ideal but I've loaded it with a cinema zoom going over it stated limit and was still able to get the correct counter-balance. The only problem I have with my bubble is that I found out true-level on MY head is attained by putting the bubble a little left of center. It sounds like what ever mechanism is in the counter-balance to buffer it depending on setting is forcing it to offer no resistance and use the full power of the spring.
 
The old adage of buying a tripod as heavy as you can carry and as expensive as you can afford still applies. For mid weight use and with a decent budget I'd have to agree on the O'Connor 1030D. This latest model is better than the 1030HD and 1030S etc as it has a counterbalance crank with settings on it - the old counterbalance dial was always fiddly and guesswork as to what setting you had. Ronford 2003 is excellent too but hard to find, but best bet if you're on a budget is something like older Sachtler Video 18 or 20 (or Caddy as mentioned) - you can sometimes find them pretty cheap and they're a massive step up from things like the DV and FSB heads. Another one that crops up cheap is the old Panorama 7+7, the precursor of the Video 18, but the problem is it has no sliding top plate for balance and only 1 counterbalance setting which is at about 8kg or so I think.
Steve
 
i looked at ebay used market for sachtler 18, and if say true its cheaper to buy new here in europe....

guys could u explain the difference between tripod heads? For example with in sachtler family there are regular heads like video 18, but also dutch, 7+7... 9+9
 
Miller makes great heads- excellent value. Many different weight classes. But if you are in Europe- which service location is easiest to work with? I have the O'Connor 1030HDS because I've grown to prefer the O'Connor feel. Sachtlers are easy to get serviced in the states. Miller's import office is within a 1 hour drive from where I live. For the professional heads I think Miller is the best value-(at one time or another I've owned the Arrow 25 and 55- sold them for the OConnor/ Ronford combo) but again, parts and service are nearby.

They are all excellent. I've also operated with the Cartoni Master-very smooth.
 
The first thing you need to establish is both your minimum and maximum weight ranges.
The real issue is the minimum.
Very few heads are able to accomodate both a very large payload (above 10kg) as well as go down to 1Kg for instance.
This is why O'Connor heads are so coveted. They can do this.

Forget Manfrotto. A purely friction based system and not very good friction at that either.

Sachtler heads are very nice and smooth, but stepped as you already know. So if you don't hit the correct weight balance you will have to add a bit of friction in between the steps. I fear you will run into this issue on whichever Sachtler head you choose, even if the 18 and 20 are industry standards for ENG/mid weight range setups. The nice part of many Sachtlers is that you have the feeling of being assisted by the head (like with ball bearings) IF you can balance them out properly.

If you were experiencing bounce back no matter what setting you were using then it is likely that your rig was below the specifications of the FSB8. What is the weight of your setup exactly?

A Dutch head must be placed on top of another head, like a Panorama head. It allows you to have diagonal angles when panning, to "dutch" an angle so to speak. So you can only really use one in conjunction with another head.

The Panorama 7+7 and 9+9 were just forerunners to more modern heads, legacy pieces, but I don't remember the weight ranges they accomodate. A lot of people feel that they are actually more solid than the newer ones but I have never tried them.

You might not be aware of this, but the Vinten 100 and 250 are great heads, (the rest of the Vintens below these two heads are not very good), however, the 100 only goes down to 7 Kilos. From 7-20Kg it is smooth, even on a Zero setting. Easily as good as an O'Connor 1030 if you are not going below it's minimum payload. Really surprised me the first time I tried one. They are friction too, but not like most of them out there, use a completely different way of arriving at a solution. The feeling is smooth, but not "assisted" like with a Sachtler. Some love it, other's don't. You need to feel it to know if it works for you or not. Don't know why, but I sense the 100 might fit your needs the best. It has 100mm half bowl by the way.

I have tried the Miller's but not a fan. Just mehh. You will fall back on friction again even though they are fluid heads and also have to deal with weight ranges that might not work for you. Kind of someplace between a Vinten and a Sachtler in the way that it uses both kind of systems. The Miller 55 is a very good head for instance, but for a much heavier payload than yours. The Compass 20 is Phillip Bloom's favorite head if I remember correctly (could be wrong about that) but doesn't seem to be any better than a lower range Vinten or Sachtler to me. Never really understood the fans of these heads, but the prices are decent and the owner is a really nice guy (it's a family run business that has been around a long time).

Believe it or not there are a few decent Libec's out there too. But I have forgotten which ones, and most of the rest are as bad as Manfrotto's.

Panther is now defunct for heads, but the x15 and T45 were good heads if you can find one, however the leveling bubble is too small and I suspect they weren't quite as solid as O'Connor's so buying a used one is less of a safe bet.

Ronford makes great heads too, but they require heavier payloads, kind of the Rolls Royce of heads, but they are quite something to lug around too.

By the way, don't forget the sticks. That's a whole other universe to deal with, but I sense you may already have those covered...
 
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Some Cartoni's I think might be good , but i had a Cartoni focus that sucked. I don't like any sachtlers lighter than an 18.
 
yoclay said:
The first thing you need to establish is both your minimum and maximum weight ranges.
Click to expand...

i d like it to be something like Oconnor range +-! from 2-4kg up to 15kg range. i currantly have C300 with extra Vmount battery, zeiss slr lenses, small follow focus, monitor, sometimes video transmitter and shoulder support (tilta), -
But soon after NAB its going to be changed to ... most likely Sony F5/55 , thats why i posted here...
sometimes i work with BM production cam... its small , but still needs Vmount batter and adopter, monitor, so its not crazy light.... should be like 4 kg

... Also have no plans for ARRI alexa or Broadcast cams.....

yoclay said:
If you were experiencing bounce back no matter what setting you were using then it is likely that your rig was below the specifications of the FSB8. What is the weight of your setup exactly?
Click to expand...
i tried it with C300 and zoom lens (tokina 50-135) with should support - it did not meet the max weight

also O'Connor 1030d is 100% my Highest possible budget, i 100% cant go higher on price , and also it would be better for me go bellow that price level.... but i see that sachtler 18 is like almost same price.

yoclay said:
I have tried the Miller's but not a fan. Just mehh. You will fall back on friction again even though they are fluid heads and also have to deal with weight ranges that might not work for you. Kind of someplace between a Vinten and a Sachtler in the way that it uses both kind of systems. The Miller 55 is a very good head for instance, but for a much heavier payload than yours. The Compass 20 is Phillip Bloom's favorite head if I remember correctly (could be wrong about that) but doesn't seem to be any better than a lower range Vinten or Sachtler to me.
Click to expand...

i kind of liek the price of Miller Compass 25 (it looks a little different then 20, not that tall, seems like more solid) and miller Arrow 25


yoclay said:
By the way, don't forget the sticks. That's a whole other universe to deal with, but I sense you may already have those covered...
Click to expand...

ok seems like i found another problem, i thought any 100 hall will work kind of same. maybe need advice about it as well! i was kind of looking at libec T102, mostly because of the price, but maybe its a mistake...
 
anatusa said:
i d like it to be something like Oconnor range +-! from 2-4kg up to 15kg range. i currantly have C300 with extra Vmount battery, zeiss slr lenses, small follow focus, monitor, sometimes video transmitter and shoulder support (tilta), -
But soon after NAB its going to be changed to ... most likely Sony F5/55 , thats why i posted here...
sometimes i work with BM production cam... its small , but still needs Vmount batter and adopter, monitor, so its not crazy light.... should be like 4 kg

... Also have no plans for ARRI alexa or Broadcast cams.....


i tried it with C300 and zoom lens (tokina 50-135) with should support - it did not meet the max weight

also O'Connor 1030d is 100% my Highest possible budget, i 100% cant go higher on price , and also it would be better for me go bellow that price level.... but i see that sachtler 18 is like almost same price.



i kind of liek the price of Miller Compass 25 (it looks a little different then 20, not that tall, seems like more solid) and miller Arrow 25




ok seems like i found another problem, i thought any 100 hall will work kind of same. maybe need advice about it as well! i was kind of looking at libec T102, mostly because of the price, but maybe its a mistake...
Click to expand...

Ok, not sure why you were having so much difficulty with the FSB8 because your setup should have fallen within it's weight range. While the F5/55 would be a heavier setup it could have probably still accomodated your setup. I own an FSB8 amongst other heads and I have gone well beyond it's supposed weight range and still be able to deliver smooth results. I put a Cooke 20-100 zoom lens, Sony F3, Samurai blade, Zacuto EVF, V-mount battery and FF4 follow focus and it still handled it !

However, if you have the money for an O'Connor, I say go for it. Almost no other head is going to let you drop down to a barebones ultralight setup as well as acccomodate the heavier one. Be aware that the D version allows for greater weight load, but does not provide full tilt to 90 degrees as opposed to a B version (which gives the tilt range but can carry less payload).

The libec tripod does not look like a good buy. It's height range is 69.0 to 138.5 cm. Which means it goes neither high nor low. Don't know about you, but I need as much range as possible.
 
I have the Miller Arrow 25. Picked it as the price/performance champion for mid-sized camera packages (after a long and involved vetting process), and I've been delighted with the performance and sturdiness to date.

I'd love an O'Connor, and am a big fan of the proper 150mm Sachtlers. But price-wise the Millers give them an incredible run for their money. I may well look to the new Miller Cineline70 150mm head when I eventually upgrade, that's a hell of a head.
 
Tripod heads are like watches(besides just the good one's being VERY expensive, too), it's a very personal thing. It's all about the "feel" to the individual. Personally I do not like Sachtler heads, even though I love their Speedlock legs. I don't like the cam system for drag or the way the heads balance out. I've used Vinten's since Day 1 of my freelance life. I started with a 10LF and then the replacement, the 100. I like the feel of Vinten's. The drag is good and infinitely/continuously variable from minimum to maximum and the tilt counterbalance allows for it to sit wherever you leave the camera tilted(no bounce back)if you balanced it properly and you're in the weight/height range. And the O'connor's are pretty much the same with regards to the way they behave(continuous drag, balance, etc.). The O'connor's are built a little tougher. Some OLD Cartoni's could be nice. A guy I used to shoot with had one that I really liked, but wasn't made anymore. I demoed a newer one and sent it back pretty quickly.
 
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