Tripod Advice Needed

Spotlight Media

Spotlight Media

Well-known member
I know this general topic has been beaten to death but I have a specific question about tripod performance and I need to call on your experience. I currently have a Manfrotto 350MVB and the 526 Head and while it was a good value and it is indeed a tripod that works quite well I am finding that my shoots require me to tilt and pan while in full zoom, thus every little movement is exaggerated (as you all know). So I am in full research mode to find out if a better tripod, like a Miller 1709 or something like that will reduce unwanted jiggle while operating at the telescopic end of the lens. Do better built, more expensive tripods help solve this issue? Is that one of the benefits you get putting $4k into a set of sticks and a head?
 
I was in the same boat as you a few weeks ago, i went for the Libec ls70 mk2 tripod with 2 stage alloy legs.

The head is very very smooth,and on full zoom if i use the max drag setting i can pan smooth as butter.
As for counterbalance, if its on balance setting 1 with no drag its not quite enought for basic 300/370. If i set vertical drag to 1 then its not bad.
Best thing really is to go to your nearest dealer mate and try a few out as we all have our own preferances.

cheers

Andy
 
Removing all jiggle is hard, but a 100mm tripod will help a lot. Also the pan and tilt smoothness on the higher end Sachtler, Miller and Vinten heads are a lot better than Manfrotto/Libec. Another factor is durability and performance over time, here the higher end ones will be in a different class. But be sure that the setup you use with the Hpx300 fits the counterbalance, the Arrow40 can take a camera twice the weight of the 300.

Another budget minded brand would be Cartoni which I know a lot of people prefer, I`ve never used them so no experience on what they`re like.

Also I don`t like Libec legs, regardless of size. Maybe I`ve been unfortunate, but 75mm legs tend to have very weak clamps and quite a few 100mm legs I`ve come across have not been rigid at all, even compared to my Sachtler Dv6 75mm kit. It should be said that I`m quite picky on tripod kits, and use them pretty hard. I do realize that demanding the same from a 1500$ Libec kit as from a 5-8000$ Sachtler/Vinten kit is a bit unfair, but some thing as basic as clamps or washers in the tripod assembly should not fail easy.
 
Do either of you have any experience with Miller? I have heard many positive remarks about them but I hear a lot about Libec here, I have 0 experience with either of them. But I need to make a move soon.
 
Miller tends to be more in the USA so here in the Uk I have not experienced them.

I agree that the Libec's can wear in their locking on the legs but I have been able to adjust all of mine and get back the same level of robustness as a new one.

My 2nd H50 and legs were in very poor state but I have refurbished and tightned everything up again to make it all useable.

I did a few pro jobs this year inc the UK general election and whilst I had a $6k Vinten vision 22 tripod it was still in a hell of a state with poor locking knobs etc so taking care of your kit matters more than just throwing money at it.

Even though my H50's are 75mm I get by with them but as said the H70 combo would be better suited.

A vinten vision 8 or 10 would be OK too and I have seen some good bargain 2nd hand ones of those too.
 
Spotlight Media said:
Do either of you have any experience with Miller? I have heard many positive remarks about them but I hear a lot about Libec here, I have 0 experience with either of them. But I need to make a move soon.
Click to expand...

I've been using a Miller Compass 15 on their CF Solo sticks for about 12months now.

I started out with a Canon A1 and by the time I added a Manfrotto LANC 523PROi controller, NTG-3 shotgun, the weight is nicely within range of the rig. The drag controls were stiff to start but as Miller pointed out they wear in .. and now they're positive, quick and easy to operate.

Over some shoots I worked out the comfortable height for the camera and marked the Solo legs for their exact extensions, to make setup quick.
Also bought their hard travel case for airplane check in, expensive here I should have bought the US version. It looks better for a start and all the costs would have balanced out.

Miller are made about 20mins from me and I've had a tour of the place, nice helpful guys and gals they really take pride in their products. Their demo showed me how to use the Solo as a monopod, just extend one leg. Surprised to find the CF legs are not that much lighter than the aluminium version, but they're much more stable.

Like many others I've now worked my way up the tripod ladder .. probably would have saved the cost of this rig if I'd started near the top.

So the only bad 'drag' is the price, but as they say .. while cam bodies come and go, a good tripod can last a lifetime. HTH.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
You definitely get what you pay for. My advice for those on a budget would always be to go for an old Sachtler secondhand, in your case something like a Video 18 mk11. You can often find these for around £1000, and they're are planets ahead of Manfrotto and the like.
I've used the Miller DS60, and the movement was nice and smooth, they do seem to have a good reputation, a lot of telelphoto shooters like to Arrow 50 and Solo legs.
Get a used Sachtler 18 or 20, something 10 or 15 years old should still work like new (in fact I much prefer the older models to the new ones).
Steve
 
My opinionated two cents. :-O

When making tripod suggestions, most suggest the package deal- all Sachtler, all Libec etc... I'm an ala carte guy. For me, Sachtler heads are the only way to go. There's nothing like them. However, the erector set type of tripod legs such as Sachtler, Cartoni, Libec and nearly every other manufacturer are a huge compromise compared to Gitzo's and Miller's Solo line. The single leg sticks can easily be dropped all the way (or very nearly) to the ground. They are easier to carry, typically lighter and have less parts to fail. Most importantly, the torsional rigidity of the Sachtler types stinks compared to the solo-leg style at any given weight or size. After a bit of wear and tear, all of those additional joints create a greater volume of slop and play.

And don't even get me started on floor spreaders- an exercise in self-loathing.... ;-)

I use an old Gitzo CF1530 set of sticks with a Sachtler DV8SB head- couldn't be happier.

As Raster said: ".. while cam bodies come and go, a good tripod can last a lifetime. HTH."

I couldn't agree more, spend the cabbage for a tripod - especially the head, and you won't regret it.

Go Gitzo and Miller.
 
I am onboard with spending $5-$7k on a good tripod and head that is why I asked such a specific question. The solo Miller's look really good but I want to be damn sure that they are as solid as a tripod can be when I am in all the way. This Manfrotto Bogen combo I have makes me feel like I am going through heroine withdrawals at times... "I got the hippy hippy shake." I know you cannot remove it all but the exercise I am learning is controlling jiggle instead of concentrating on my skill. So I don't want to end up with the same amount of jiggle/wobble after spending a boat load of cash on a new tripod. So is that one of the benefits of a better tripod? A substantial improvement in jiggle/wobble reduction at full tele?
 
Spotlight Media said:
So is that one of the benefits of a better tripod? A substantial improvement in jiggle/wobble reduction at full tele?
Click to expand...

If the shot is locked off, then yes, to some extent due to the superior construction, but a large part of it comes down to weight. But where you will notice the improvement most is when doing moves pans, tilts). There will be much less jerk at the start of moves and less backlash at the end, and the whole move will be smoother. But you're never going to stop it completely. My setup is O'Connor 2060HD head on single stage Sachtler HD CF legs - weighing in at 12kg, and at the long end of the lens if it's breezy you'll still get some wobble, expecially if you touch the lens barrel to focus.

As for Gitzo and Miller Solo legs, I used to use Gitzo, but had to switch because you couldn't get a 150mm bowl head onto them. And I think when the poster was talking about lack of rigidity on the Sachtlers it must have been the lighter flimsy ones because the heavy duty ones have more rigidity and less twist than the Gitzos.

Steve
 
I would say that you should definately notice the differance on a sachtler/vinten/libec tripod over a manfrotto.

Forgetting the legs for a moment, the fluid units in these heads are vastly better. From memory Satchtler and libec use seperate fluid cartridges for each drag level whereas vinten in the lower-mid end use a form of fluid firction system.

The build quality of the heads are very nice,very solid. Ive used a vinten vision head and my libec and both far surpass the manfrottos ive tried before. All the better tripods have a form of counter balancing built in, this also will help you when shooting at full zoom as you wont be fighting the head.

Im not an expert on legs so ill leave that to others, like i said before, you MUST try it yourself... We all have differant requirements and styles, find a package YOU like.

What all have said here is true a good tripod will make it so much easier to get the shot you want and it will improve the jiggle /wobble you currently get. It wont totally remove it but it will make it much easier to work around.
 
Last edited:
Would the bowl size also serve a function in reducing wobble or is that more or less a function of the legs? Of all the legs that have been mentioned I am leaning more towards the Miller Solo's as they have the ability to be very adjustable but does that adjust-ability come with a price? It would be wonderful to try out a set of sticks and a head before buying.
 
Don't know if the Miller Solo is the same, but with the Gitzos one problem you can get is that they can lock up if they get very wet. Inside the leg lock there is a fibre bush that sits between the leg and the leg lock and it can swell if wet and jam the legs.
Bowl size definitely makes a difference - the bigger the surface that your bowl is mounted on the more stable it'll be, it's simple physics. This is why for the really heavy setups you don't use a bowl at all, heads attach via Mitchel/Moy fixing which heas even great conact.
This is why I gave up on Gitzos, because I needed a 150mm bowl head, but I do wildlife work and so am on ultra-long lenses all the time, for most uses 100mm is a good compromise. I really would recommend a used Sachtler 18 mk 1, 2 or 3, they can be really cheap, and in fact here's a Video 18 Plus with heavy duty CF legs for £1500 http://www.bblist.co.uk/ilg.php?item=25440&iid=13381
Steve
 
Spotlight Media said:
I am onboard with spending $5-$7k on a good tripod and head that is why I asked such a specific question. The solo Miller's look really good but I want to be damn sure that they are as solid as a tripod can be when I am in all the way.
Click to expand...

I don't have much time with the Miller's, other than checking them out at NAB. I was pretty impressed. I do have plenty of time on Gitzo's , about twenty plus years. As a result, I have no problem telling you that they are rock solid for your needs. Of course, you need to buy a set of sticks from the correct series for your needs. In this regard, Gitzo has a lot more choices than Miller.


Spotlight Media said:
This Manfrotto Bogen combo I have makes me feel like I am going through heroine withdrawals at times... "I got the hippy hippy shake." I know you cannot remove it all but the exercise I am learning is controlling jiggle instead of concentrating on my skill. So I don't want to end up with the same amount of jiggle/wobble after spending a boat load of cash on a new tripod. So is that one of the benefits of a better tripod? A substantial improvement in jiggle/wobble reduction at full tele?
Click to expand...

Key word: Manfrotto.... ;-)

Yes, jiggle and wobble elimination at full tele (among other reasons)s one of the primary reasons for spending a boat load of cash on a set of sticks. You'll be amazed at the difference from your Manfrotto/ Bogen combo. With due respect, Manfrotto's are not for prime time, they are in a different world compared to the other companies mentioned in this thread.

When I went free lance, the first major piece of gear that I purchased was my tripod- a Sachtler 18P and the Gitzo legs that I mentioned. A camera came much later. Some twelve years later, I'm still using the legs and they are as rock solid as the day I took them out of the box. Those sticks have lasted through many cameras, rented and owned.

Try and demo some legs and heads out. Personally, I strongly recommend in favor of the Gitzo/ Miller design style against the erector set style.

Good luck
 
The larger the head size,the more stable the tripods tend to be. I believe its because the head mount is larger, the legs tend to be wider and hence more stable.

The solo's appear to break the rule as they are single tube legs but people do rate them.

I believe Philip Bloom has a compass 20 on solo legs and he rates it highly, from what ive read they are very adjustable and ideal if youre out and about.

i prefer big and heavy myself :)
 
For what's it worth I've been using a Miller Arrow 25 w/Solo 1505 legs for field work for quite a while and that rig has been great for both my 300 and 3000. The flexibility of the Solo has been a shot saver. The Arrow is smooth and predictable. Worth every dollar.
 
I have a Manfrotto 516/545...and I think it sucks. It's ok for gathering talking heads and static broll. But we also do a lot of IMAG, so once rear zoom/focus controls and a monitor are added, the head can't support it AND be fluid at the same time.

I'm looking at the Miller Compass or Arrow heads. Unsure to go with the solo legs or their traditional style. Still researching...
 
Hi

If I could try and stretch this thread a little further.

I use my 300 on a Libec LS-38 (2A), ie the spreaders are on the ground, it is possible to modify or remove the ground spreaders and replace it with the Mid Level spreaders and end up with this:

www.libecsales.com/products/ls/ls-38m-2a.html

If anyone uses the Libec -38 with the Mid spreaders, what are your thoughts?

I'm happy enough with the Libec LS-38 on a flat surface, but I want to get out and about with my 300.

I live in Australia and I can upgrade here, but the Mid spreader is about A$120 and Libec recommend also purchasing a kit that puts new feet on each leg for around A$120, so I'm looking at around a $250 experiment, if you see my point.

Cheers

Offshoresa65s
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top