Martay
Veteran
Moviescope Magazine Print, Cannes Edition:
Misinformation already starting! Yay! For the record, I was born in Toledo, Ohio and raised in Georgia. Haha!
Wow! Nice press. Who's your publicist? I needed them
-Martin
FEATURE: TRAILER - SUPERSEEDS | Super Powered Adventure
- Thread starter Kholi
- Start date
Wow! Nice press. Who's your publicist? I needed them
-Martin
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
have been holed up in my hometown the last two weeks and all I can think about is how easy it would be to shoot a movie here. locations would be so easy. my family alone owns five houses and a few businesses. friends I grew up with now own businesses here. could do a small town potboiler, or maybe an erotic thriller with double crosses and hidden agendas. and I've got plenty of friends in new york who would come down to work it. cast and crew. the wheels are spinning.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
May I ask what home town it is you speak of?
If I shot a movie in my hometown, it'd be like Deliverance.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
Mechanicsburg, PA
not even big enough to be a town technically. it's classified as a borough.
My grandmother just bought a nice little place in Georgia, perfect neighborhood look for a quiet thriller/horror movie, or some alien encounters. Can't wait to go back to GA to shoot!
Wow! Nice press. Who's your publicist? I needed them
-Martin
Haha. That's all Teresa, man! There's'a more coming, just need to space it out and take a little time to build momentum.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Great article there Kholi!
Martay
Veteran
CRProductions
Active member
These threads are inspiring me man, tempted to start one for Blood Thirsty, but I don't have any kick ass info like you guys...this is SO awesome seeing Kholi go from idea, to full fledged film, and getting coverage and all...his plan is coming to fruition and it's freaking AWESOME!!
Frank Perrotto
Active member
Hi Kholi, nice article! I think one of the hardest things, if not THE hardest thing at this stage is getting the eyeballs to pay attention. You should seriously write a book on this whole experience... I'd definitely buy it! This project is like the perfect synthesis of everything currently available to indie filmmakers, especially if you go with sci-fi or horror as a genre.
I just wanted to ask you about finding vfx people though. I'm in the middle of pre-production on a sci-fi short that'll have a decent budget (17.5k). We're doing some practical effects and have already gotten a great deal on this rod puppet alien that's like 7 feet tall and is a completely original design. So that part has actually been quite easy, because this place (you can google it, Monster in My Closet) is close to where I live and the owner is very willing to work with indie filmmakers on a budget. With that, I know what I'm going to get because it will be there on the set, we'll be able to see it on the monitor and we can also augment certain things in post. So that's that...
However, with digital effects, it seems a bit more difficult to wade through all of the options. I was wondering if you have the time, could you expand upon what the most important ingredient was in your search for the right people at the right budget? From my experience just inquiring here and there, you can spend a lot of money and get not-so-great results with a boutique or up-and-coming vfx house OR you can literally go person-to-person with ads on craigslist or on discussion boards. The other option, it seems, is elance, which allows you to farm it overseas to places like India. All have their plusses and minuses I guess, but any further insight you can give on your process would be helpful and appreciated.
From what you've said, it seems like we'd be better off shooting a portion of our movie using the puppet, some limited digital effects, and a few of the key scenes to make a trailer and then use that to get people excited for the kickstarter campaign and in putting together the VFX team for the more complicated shots.
Anyway, feel free to comment on or answer as much or as little of this as you like, as I know you must be insanely busy!
I just wanted to ask you about finding vfx people though. I'm in the middle of pre-production on a sci-fi short that'll have a decent budget (17.5k). We're doing some practical effects and have already gotten a great deal on this rod puppet alien that's like 7 feet tall and is a completely original design. So that part has actually been quite easy, because this place (you can google it, Monster in My Closet) is close to where I live and the owner is very willing to work with indie filmmakers on a budget. With that, I know what I'm going to get because it will be there on the set, we'll be able to see it on the monitor and we can also augment certain things in post. So that's that...
However, with digital effects, it seems a bit more difficult to wade through all of the options. I was wondering if you have the time, could you expand upon what the most important ingredient was in your search for the right people at the right budget? From my experience just inquiring here and there, you can spend a lot of money and get not-so-great results with a boutique or up-and-coming vfx house OR you can literally go person-to-person with ads on craigslist or on discussion boards. The other option, it seems, is elance, which allows you to farm it overseas to places like India. All have their plusses and minuses I guess, but any further insight you can give on your process would be helpful and appreciated.
From what you've said, it seems like we'd be better off shooting a portion of our movie using the puppet, some limited digital effects, and a few of the key scenes to make a trailer and then use that to get people excited for the kickstarter campaign and in putting together the VFX team for the more complicated shots.
Anyway, feel free to comment on or answer as much or as little of this as you like, as I know you must be insanely busy!
Thanks alot, Frank. And, I agree with your post a few weeks back as well! However, I can't afford to write a book, but I plan on throwing up a "cheat sheet" before we go into the next feature and if people want to donate to my Wendy's Ninety-Nine Cent Spicy Chicken Nugget Fund in exchange, that'd be sweet! As DVXuser is my hub, it'll be featured right here for everyone to consume free of charge.
Oddly enough, the next feature is another mish-mash of high-concept terriblness. Haha. So yeah, I'm game to share.
Practical is sick. Looking forward to seeing the puppet work! I want to use more practical going forward. It's a real surprise how willing the artists are to work with new filmmakers. I had the same experience when in need of prosthetic for the title bad guy.
Here's my best insight: scour forums. EVen here on DVXuser there are some freelance VFX artists that can do a lot of different jobs. My next forum would be CGTalk, where you can go and check out the reels of VFX artists who are either in school, just getting out, or employed and interested in doing side projects for reel material. Craigslist? I didn't really get anything good going that route, to be honest. They were all sub par and I know the budget's low... but, when you're relying on VFX you can only skimp so much.
Do not hesitate to ask people overseas, as well. The business is booming in the Netherlands. I visited Amsterdam end of last year and there are SO many artists that are excited to do the work, be it on video games or for movies. And, they are good. Also, India, that's a large source for the work.
This is a good plan/path. Similo comes to mind: DVXuser/REDuser Macgregor had a really good project going, and they did some of the VFX before going to Kickstarter http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikehedge/vfx-for-sci-fi-shortfilm-similo). Because of the high profile, Macgregor was able to reach a really nice goal in excess of 10K to finish his short film. I think it's a good plan, and with a puppet already in place, barring that the rest of production is on the same level, then there's a shot at raising money, even better a shot a raising interest from other VFX artists who might want to help out if you can pay their rent and put a little food on the table.
Hope that helps some!
Martay
Veteran
I'm offering a theme song from my group from way back
http://rotc.bandcamp.com/track/blood-thirsty
-M
mentatDUKE
Veteran
Kholi, I decided to go back to the beginning of this thread and found that on page 2 you said this:
"I know why Superseeds is the project I chose, though, that's an entirely new blog/post, however, and it's quite pertinent to the process."
Ready to share your reason for "Why Superseeds?" yet?
"I know why Superseeds is the project I chose, though, that's an entirely new blog/post, however, and it's quite pertinent to the process."
Ready to share your reason for "Why Superseeds?" yet?
Yeahp!
It's a silly feature film.
Crutch, I mean. It's a crutch. I'm still pretty young and I can't handle serious material, this is an easy pill for me to swallow. There's nothing serious going on, which means little room to come off as pretentious or preachy about matters that really... don't matter at my age. This also meant that a lot of things could come up short but still not detract too much from the overall project.
I could cast younger people looking for good reel material, use locations that were free or cheap, etc.
The more serious the picture, the better all facets need to be to make it work. I'm new, so... gotta go with what I can actually do "decently" as a first time feature.
Entertainment Value
Just face value, it's something to practice learning how to execute on all levels and in entertaining an audience. That's pretty important, me thinks (obviously), and I don't think I could have done that with a thriller or anything crazy serious.
High Concept and Marketability
Superheroes? VFX? Gateway drug undertones? Yeah, that's an easy watch on friday or sunday night. We went in with the idea that we at least wanted to try to break even, and seeing what was getting distribution deals... that meant having something that had a pretty "obviousness" in the trailer. Didn't want to spend a lot of money on something that just wasn't obvious.
Zombies were going out of style very swiftly at the time and they weren't high profile enough to get noticed. It also so happens that we'll have a finished product before the Superhero onslaught begins to peter off.
The international market's probably where we'll do the best, and that's fine by me!
Assets at the moment
I had/have access to a lot of stuff at the moment that could make it happen. So, I went with something I knew I could execute on an ultra thin budget. Use what you've got available to you.
So, yeah, I actually had a better one location script in my back pocket when we were deciding which to do. Fact was, the better script needed better money (and a name) for it to be worthwhile. Even though it was one location and less characters. Go figure.
Frank Perrotto
Active member
I swear, Kholi, you could just collect your replies, add a little filler, and publish an e-book for Kindle. Sell it for $2.00! It could be the next Rebel Without a Crew! Except it'd be called, "Rebel With a Slightly Larger, Indespensible Crew... and How to Put One Together." Haha... but then again, it takes away from the filmmaking time, right?
Thanks for the detailed reply to my questions (and also the post about how you chose your script.) Regarding practical, the main reason we decided to do it for the alien is that I still think its damn near impossible to get a fully articulated, photoreal CGI creature on a budget. I mean... even WITH a big budget, CGI can look pretty bad. Of course, there seems to be a growing consensus anyway that filmmakers should split up their vfx more between practical and CG, so hopefully it'll be a selling point. The first time I saw the creature at an early mold stage, just standing in front of it was probably one of the coolest things I've ever experienced. The fact that it was in physical space with me... well it sounds corny, but it gave me chills.
I once put an ad on craigslist looking for vfx people and was surprised by the responses. There were at least three or four people who had worked on major films, including POTC, Narnia, The Incredible Hulk, etc. They were all very busy, though, and had extremely short windows of opportunity, so I think it's something where you either find up-and-comers or you know what you want and have everything ready to go the moment you push the button. But other than those surprises, you're right, many were so inexperienced that it seemed like a lark for them and/or you could smell the flakiness from a mile away after brief contact. The only other thing I did was talk to local boutique houses who charged an arm and a leg and I had a feeling my idea of what would 'work' was different than their idea. Case in point, I don't know if you've seen it, but the VFX in that short film 'The Raven' were very good and wouldn't look out of place in a Hollywood film (they were also expertly conceived for what could be done on a budget yet still have that big movie feeling). When you're trying to make a name, especially with a short (part of the whole reason for doing a short, really, to stretch the money more), the stuff has to be up to a certain standard and I think in those cases, it felt as though I might put in the money and not get what I expected. That's the scariest thing about the CG stuff vs. the practical, especially if you're spending a lot of money. That project went off the rails and morphed into the short I'm doing now, so there's been about a year of further development.
Thanks for the tip on CG Talk too. I think CGSociety is another good one that I came across and bookmarked a while back. How has the overseas thing been going? One of the greatest things about these internets for the indie filmmaker is that we don't all have to be in the same town to participate in pre or post-production work. It's great to share all this information too, as I think learning how to deal with vfx and incorporate it into our work-flow is becoming more and more important. Even if it's just a few shots to expand the scope of a drama, there are places you wouldn't immediately think to use them and I can see that thinking is beginning to change. Hopefully I'll be a little further a long a month from now on getting my own project set up and I'll start a similar thread to just share the info. There isn't really a handbook for this stuff yet! Not for indies, anyway...
Anyway, thanks again, and I can't wait to see the trailer!
Thanks for the detailed reply to my questions (and also the post about how you chose your script.) Regarding practical, the main reason we decided to do it for the alien is that I still think its damn near impossible to get a fully articulated, photoreal CGI creature on a budget. I mean... even WITH a big budget, CGI can look pretty bad. Of course, there seems to be a growing consensus anyway that filmmakers should split up their vfx more between practical and CG, so hopefully it'll be a selling point. The first time I saw the creature at an early mold stage, just standing in front of it was probably one of the coolest things I've ever experienced. The fact that it was in physical space with me... well it sounds corny, but it gave me chills.
I once put an ad on craigslist looking for vfx people and was surprised by the responses. There were at least three or four people who had worked on major films, including POTC, Narnia, The Incredible Hulk, etc. They were all very busy, though, and had extremely short windows of opportunity, so I think it's something where you either find up-and-comers or you know what you want and have everything ready to go the moment you push the button. But other than those surprises, you're right, many were so inexperienced that it seemed like a lark for them and/or you could smell the flakiness from a mile away after brief contact. The only other thing I did was talk to local boutique houses who charged an arm and a leg and I had a feeling my idea of what would 'work' was different than their idea. Case in point, I don't know if you've seen it, but the VFX in that short film 'The Raven' were very good and wouldn't look out of place in a Hollywood film (they were also expertly conceived for what could be done on a budget yet still have that big movie feeling). When you're trying to make a name, especially with a short (part of the whole reason for doing a short, really, to stretch the money more), the stuff has to be up to a certain standard and I think in those cases, it felt as though I might put in the money and not get what I expected. That's the scariest thing about the CG stuff vs. the practical, especially if you're spending a lot of money. That project went off the rails and morphed into the short I'm doing now, so there's been about a year of further development.
Thanks for the tip on CG Talk too. I think CGSociety is another good one that I came across and bookmarked a while back. How has the overseas thing been going? One of the greatest things about these internets for the indie filmmaker is that we don't all have to be in the same town to participate in pre or post-production work. It's great to share all this information too, as I think learning how to deal with vfx and incorporate it into our work-flow is becoming more and more important. Even if it's just a few shots to expand the scope of a drama, there are places you wouldn't immediately think to use them and I can see that thinking is beginning to change. Hopefully I'll be a little further a long a month from now on getting my own project set up and I'll start a similar thread to just share the info. There isn't really a handbook for this stuff yet! Not for indies, anyway...
Anyway, thanks again, and I can't wait to see the trailer!
mentatDUKE
Veteran
Loving this thread (as you can tell). So we know you shot with Red which begs the question: Hard drive space. How are you managing master footage, edited footage, and vfx composited footage. RAIDs? Backups? How are you sending it off to the FX team? Upload? (Each clip at master quality has to be very large tho) Thumb drives in the mail?
Very curious.
Very curious.
CRProductions
Active member
Frank you did "The Raven"?
Frank Perrotto
Active member
Haha, no I most certainly did not do 'The Raven', but I wish I had. I think it was a brilliant move and probably the most perfect combination I've seen yet of simple yet effective special effects that are easy enough for a VFX artist to do in their spare time, and then all of the usual bullet, glass breaking, and fire effects that I think are starting to become overused in shorts and on youtube. It wasn't what he did, really, but the way that he did it. I also think it's one of the best things I've seen shot on the Red (it admittedly plays to the Red's strengths) yet gets very little mention on the Red user forums.
One thing I could not understand though is how that thing caught on like wildfire so fast. It hit the web and I think less than 4 days later it was on huff post, slashfilm... you name it, it was out there. In all the post-release hype around that short, I think many failed to realize that that guy also made a few dramatic indie films. I haven't seen Mancora, but the acting looks good enough that he probably knew that between that and the FX driven short, he'd be ok once he got a few meetings. Last I heard, he was doing some kind of dramatic Rocky-type story about a guy who pimps out his low rider. I think the film is even called Low Rider. I know Mark Wahlberg now owns the rights to The Raven, but who knows if he ever intends to do something with it. Anyway, with regards to the hype, I actually emailed the director within a week or so after it hit the web asking if they had a publicist and he told me no, they didn't, that they just put it up, notified a few people, and the thing spread like wildfire... he said even he was surprised by what happened. I didn't mean to imply that it's not better than 99% of what's out there, but I guess I have a hard time believing it's that simple.
CRProductions
Active member
I think it took off because it was a short film with big budget, better effects than most indie films..no one expects to see a short that looks like it was shot on film or expensive digital, with expensive looking effects...and it's on a subject matter people LOVE. Hence why I think SuperSEEDS will take off...